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Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

danielmiessler.com

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Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#31

Post by kasey_junk »

kristianc wrote: post #25

It's hard to trust that this is from a real "A-player" when it throws so many of my "not an A-Player but a genial bullshitter" flags. - Poorly written and communicated, with faux-profound single word paragraphs - 'Insights' that would look more at home on a wall decal ("It’s true that I resisted the negativity, escaped, and embraced the positivity and rode it to its potential.") - "I used to think this way, before I…

You've listed things that make him not an A player in your mind, can you list the things that would indicate he is one? Can you objectively compare that list to some A players and back test your assumptions?

My biggest problem with the "A" player mythology is that I don't think anyone has any real way to judge it, so "A" player becomes "looks like me". Which I think is the heart of our industry's myriad issues.

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#32

Post by ChuckMcM »

dsacco wrote: post #23
ChuckMcM wrote: post #12

People try to live up to the expectations you set for them. From kids to adults. Expect people to be excellent, ask how you can help when they are behind (helps validate the expectation) and celebrate excellent results.

Can you do this with your own expectations for yourself?

Yes. I am not a big fan of affirmation but expecting to succeed after some effort will carry you through a lot of push back

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#33

Post by kristianc »

kasey_junk wrote: post #31
kristianc wrote: post #25

It's hard to trust that this is from a real "A-player" when it throws so many of my "not an A-Player but a genial bullshitter" flags. - Poorly written and communicated, with faux-profound single word paragraphs - 'Insights' that would look more at home on a wall decal ("It’s true that I resisted the negativity, escaped, and embraced the positivity and rode it to its potential.") - "I used to think this way, before I…

You've listed things that make him not an A player in your mind, can you list the things that would indicate he is one? Can you objectively compare that list to some A players and back test your assumptions? My biggest problem with the "A" player mythology is that I don't think anyone has any real way to judge it, so "A" player becomes "looks like me". Which I think is the heart of our industry's myriad issues.

For me, when I think of an A Player, I think of people like Martin Fowler, Patrick McKenzie, Jess Frazelle. All have demonstrable track records, and share hugely detailed posts which are backed up with real experience and not vague insights.

They are sharing material that generates large amounts of value and helps define and shape their respective areas (such as Martin's piece on Serverless, Patrick's work helping support small vendors, Jess's "Containerize everything" post), and what they do share is clearly and cogently written without bullshit or hyperbole.

They are names that immediately come to mind when someone asks me "Do you know someone who is good on... ?"

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#34

Post by bigheadpercoli »

kristianc wrote: post #25

It's hard to trust that this is from a real "A-player" when it throws so many of my "not an A-Player but a genial bullshitter" flags. - Poorly written and communicated, with faux-profound single word paragraphs - 'Insights' that would look more at home on a wall decal ("It’s true that I resisted the negativity, escaped, and embraced the positivity and rode it to its potential.") - "I used to think this way, before I…

Truly a C-Player reply.

Poorly researched, unnecessarily inflammatory, weak in arguments.

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#35

Post by tweedledee »

kristianc wrote: post #33
kasey_junk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've listed things that make him not an A player in your mind, can you list the things that would indicate he is one? Can you objectively compare that list to some A players and back test your assumptions? My biggest problem with the "A" player mythology is that I don't think anyone has any real way to judge it, so "A" player becomes "looks like me". Which I think is the heart of our industry's myriad issues.

For me, when I think of an A Player, I think of people like Martin Fowler, Patrick McKenzie, Jess Frazelle. All have demonstrable track records, and share hugely detailed posts which are backed up with real experience and not vague insights. They are sharing material that generates large amounts of value and helps define and shape their respective areas (such as Martin's piece on Serverless, Patrick's work helping su…

Martin Fowler can't program functionally. Which is crazy because of his focus on DSLs. I do not consider him a good programmer.

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#36

Post by kristianc »

tweedledee wrote: post #35
kristianc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, when I think of an A Player, I think of people like Martin Fowler, Patrick McKenzie, Jess Frazelle. All have demonstrable track records, and share hugely detailed posts which are backed up with real experience and not vague insights. They are sharing material that generates large amounts of value and helps define and shape their respective areas (such as Martin's piece on Serverless, Patrick's work helping su…

Martin Fowler can't program functionally. Which is crazy because of his focus on DSLs. I do not consider him a good programmer.

Is his book on DSLs more of a high-level / business person's treatment than a practical guide?

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#37

Post by kelukelugames »

maxxxxx wrote: post #19
kelukelugames wrote: post #2

I remember listening to a 30 year old manager say you can't turn a C player into a B or a B into an A. That's a poor attitude for a manager.

From my experience most people who talk like that are D players themselves. They are just pricks who blame their own failures on the people that work for them. Most real A players I know are very much into coaching other people and giving them opportunities to grow.

I think you are right. The company used NPS to measure everything. His org had a score of 10. lmao

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#38

Post by bsder »

kristianc wrote: post #33
kasey_junk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've listed things that make him not an A player in your mind, can you list the things that would indicate he is one? Can you objectively compare that list to some A players and back test your assumptions? My biggest problem with the "A" player mythology is that I don't think anyone has any real way to judge it, so "A" player becomes "looks like me". Which I think is the heart of our industry's myriad issues.

For me, when I think of an A Player, I think of people like Martin Fowler, Patrick McKenzie, Jess Frazelle. All have demonstrable track records, and share hugely detailed posts which are backed up with real experience and not vague insights. They are sharing material that generates large amounts of value and helps define and shape their respective areas (such as Martin's piece on Serverless, Patrick's work helping su…

Fowler was part of the Chrysler Comprehensive Compensation system project that was the programming disaster that all the XP people spawned from--thus proving yet again "It's better to fail loudly than succeed quietly".

Fowler seems to have gotten better over the years, but I don't put him in the A-List with people like Rich Hickey or Cliff Click.

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#39

Post by kasey_junk »

kristianc wrote: post #33
kasey_junk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've listed things that make him not an A player in your mind, can you list the things that would indicate he is one? Can you objectively compare that list to some A players and back test your assumptions? My biggest problem with the "A" player mythology is that I don't think anyone has any real way to judge it, so "A" player becomes "looks like me". Which I think is the heart of our industry's myriad issues.

For me, when I think of an A Player, I think of people like Martin Fowler, Patrick McKenzie, Jess Frazelle. All have demonstrable track records, and share hugely detailed posts which are backed up with real experience and not vague insights. They are sharing material that generates large amounts of value and helps define and shape their respective areas (such as Martin's piece on Serverless, Patrick's work helping su…

You didn't actually list things that someone could do to be an "A player", you just mentioned some people you already think are A players. You could easily judge the people you mentioned on the same rubric you bring up and find them wanting.

Patrick for instance (who I pick precisely because I respect him so much) could be crucified by your model ('charge more' is the best bumper sticker ever, he endlessly tells you to add people to your newsletter, lessons learned are his core competency, etc)

Re: Why You Should Treat C-Players Like A-Players

#40

Post by jcrben »

kristianc wrote: post #33
kasey_junk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've listed things that make him not an A player in your mind, can you list the things that would indicate he is one? Can you objectively compare that list to some A players and back test your assumptions? My biggest problem with the "A" player mythology is that I don't think anyone has any real way to judge it, so "A" player becomes "looks like me". Which I think is the heart of our industry's myriad issues.

For me, when I think of an A Player, I think of people like Martin Fowler, Patrick McKenzie, Jess Frazelle. All have demonstrable track records, and share hugely detailed posts which are backed up with real experience and not vague insights. They are sharing material that generates large amounts of value and helps define and shape their respective areas (such as Martin's piece on Serverless, Patrick's work helping su…

It's a nontechnical post.

For technical posts, see https://danielmiessler.com/study/

For several topics, the guy's blog is high on Google and provides detailed, plain introductions.

Anyway, A player is relative to the league and specific to the skill. Tough to judge from a random blogpost. I guess that should be a platitude, but it's worth repeating.

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