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Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

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Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#31
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very different. Pets.com in Y1: revenue $600k USD, advertising spend $11.5m. Deliveroo generates significant revenue and is a business/brand that consumers are passionate about. The bet investors are making is that their gross margin can increase quickly. Expect they're doing close to £300m of revenue now, so a 6.5x rev>valuation multiple is punchy but fair.

£128.56m in sales last year, and a loss of £129m. So very much curious how they managed such a valuation without over-hype.

For a crowd who presumably work in startups, folks on here are always weirdly surprised by how this works. Generate vast revenue, reach scale, cut central costs. (To be clear, Deliveroo's challenge seems to be cost of sales.)

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#32
post #5

Another unicorn that can only exist because it uses fake self-employment to turn their workforce into a cheaper one. Just like Uber and so many others this only works because for some reason turning paid work into something that is not even self-sustaining suddenly is accepted. Does nobody have ethical issues with seeing value in devaluing people?

While I agree this self-employed farce has to stop, the service itself is good. Previously takeaways were all the more greasy options, the deliveroo options are nicer food and it's aimed at a different market segment. It allows venues access to a market that was previously denied to them because they couldn't justify running their own delivery service full-time. They charge £2.50 per delivery. If they were paying cou…

While I agree this self-employed farce has to stop, the service itself is good

I think they are having issues then with scaling out - I've used Deliveroo a grand total of 3 times, all for restaurants that I know are about a mile from my house, every time Deliveroo have been 45-60 minutes after their estimated time, the food was cold and it would literally have been quicker to walk to the restaurant, eat, and walk home. Anecdata I know but I don't see how they can make it work without hiring a lot more people. And this business can only work financially if they don't.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#33
post #20
post #10

For those wondering about these numbers, Deliveroo has a great concept, solid execution and huge brand recognition. Just-eat (worth 4.6B) connects people to shitty takeaways and has a terrible website. Deliveroo connects people to restaurants and provides the delivery service themselves, through bikers (here in London). They have taken this and spread throughout Europe. They are going to (and are) completely canablis…

What makes you think Just-Eat ran out of steam "years ago"? Stock price is higher than ever: http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-marke... They are reporting good growth: http://www.cityam.com/256734/just-eat-reported-order-growth-... I see lots of Deliveroo bikes around where I live in the centre of London, but they are basically non-existant when I go to other towns and cities. Also, Deliveroo sta…

Deliveroo in Brighton has KFC and McDonalds alongside their “high-end” restaurants. This, along with not having user ratings for outlets, has really made me question how good the other outlets really are.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#34
post #27
post #5

Another unicorn that can only exist because it uses fake self-employment to turn their workforce into a cheaper one. Just like Uber and so many others this only works because for some reason turning paid work into something that is not even self-sustaining suddenly is accepted. Does nobody have ethical issues with seeing value in devaluing people?

Are gig economies the problem (and the companies that create them) or are they an inevitability? I''d argue the latter, especially as the wave of automation that is foreseeable in the very near future will displace more people. Companies are going to innovate but what we are witnessing now is innovation that under the current market economy ) this innovation "devalues" people. Perhaps the solution is better legislati…

It's a problem if they are flouting employment law in order to "innovate".

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#35
post #25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Just-Eat ran out of steam "years ago"? Stock price is higher than ever: http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-marke... They are reporting good growth: http://www.cityam.com/256734/just-eat-reported-order-growth-... I see lots of Deliveroo bikes around where I live in the centre of London, but they are basically non-existant when I go to other towns and cities. Also, Deliveroo sta…

By ran out of steam I mean: 1. Their website is really quite poor, and has been for years. Why the hell is the navigation so crap, and why can't I search for a specific food item? 2. They still haven't done anything about the prevalent and pervasive fake reviews. Also, they cannot "move up-scale", their logo is associated with cheap food. Upscale restaurants don't want to put themselves on just-eat, next to the cheap…

1) Maybe mobile has a higher conversion rate and higher order value? Having a bad website would force people to mobile. Here are some screenshots of Just-Eat and Deliveroo's websites: https://imgur.com/a/9dWna -- Deliveroo hides search filters away, and has 2 wine shops first. Do you really think that Deliveroo's website is better, looking at these screenshots side-by-side? :)

2) I can't comment on reviews -- don't know if that's true or if it's the same with Deliveroo.

3) I just opened Deliveroo in Angel. First is a donut shop... second is Pret A Manger... third is a wine store... then LEON and then Itsu. First on HungryHouse (owned by Just-Eat) is YouMe Sushi, followed by a bunch of independents (none very special but still independent and better than Pret/LEON/Itsu!). First on Just-Eat is Burger King to be fair, but that is then followed by indepdenents. McDonalds is first on Uber Eats. So I think Just-Eat is already equaling Deliveroo/Uber. Also I do see their logo everywhere.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#36
post #5

Another unicorn that can only exist because it uses fake self-employment to turn their workforce into a cheaper one. Just like Uber and so many others this only works because for some reason turning paid work into something that is not even self-sustaining suddenly is accepted. Does nobody have ethical issues with seeing value in devaluing people?

It feels as if the devaluation and irony is pushed further by Uber using the profits from human workers to invest in autonomous vehicles which will directly eliminate the same workers. Deliveroo doesn't seem to currently invest in robotics research, but other companies such as https://www.starship.xyz/for-businesses/ are pursuing autonomous delivery.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#37
post #2

Like Pets.com never happened

Very different. Pets.com in Y1: revenue $600k USD, advertising spend $11.5m. Deliveroo generates significant revenue and is a business/brand that consumers are passionate about. The bet investors are making is that their gross margin can increase quickly. Expect they're doing close to £300m of revenue now, so a 6.5x rev>valuation multiple is punchy but fair.

If you look at these companies in silos then it seems like they could be legitimate, however once you look at the context of other similar companies who are hoping to be the winner - and that's the only way they can success and the outcome isn't sustainable for any of them (unless their goal is to exit via the public markets and give the loss to them or some big money VCs).

They all need the metrics they're working with to hold and the outcome for all of them is likely to be drastic for all of them.

Perhaps they're hoping efforts by Uber and others in the same boat will work together in helping mould the market and become aligned with society's efforts/need to create Universal Basic Income for everyone. If UBI is to come into play then other metrics must shift too.

The reward we give people for innovation will have to be at par with what's reasonable - and the peaks and valleys will more or less flatten out. The people who will be most innovative can use their own funds to trickle into future innovations that will be operated efficiently, e.g. Elon Musk.

Perhaps there will no longer be VC firms in the future, and it will be individuals that invest through crowdfunding platforms. What would likely be a great hybrid model is crowdfunding platform but with VC firms - syndicate-like - except where an individual could allocate $5/month into the fund, perhaps only allowing individuals to invest with a monthly cap, so no one individual or organization can have some bizarre incentive or goal towards swaying the decision makers of the fund, etc.

I'd argue the pros of getting $1 from a million people is far better than $1mm from a few. The most successful crowdfunding platforms right now, because they're VC-backed and thus have those same pressures on them, have to charge an unreasonable fee - which is unnecessary pressure on the projects that are trying to get funded. The alternative right now is feeding into the VC system who expect relatively short-term high profits - which then only allows platforms that charge an excessive amount to become dominant; and this does cause more efficient efforts by others to not be able to survive as easily - something I'm sure they're aware of as part of how they can get ahead with their model.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#38

I find it funny they're claiming some sort of AI system will help them make better margins. In my city, Nottingham. all the deliveroo people gather in Trinity Square waiting for jobs. There's obviously no special AI needed. I do think though that it raises the issue that they should be paying for their own business premises and stop using our public spaces as their company waiting spots.

Yep same in Bristol. They remind me of a loitering Bōsōzoku biker gang - scooters, similar outfits, alternative hair etc. eyeballing passersby.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#39
post #15
post #5

Another unicorn that can only exist because it uses fake self-employment to turn their workforce into a cheaper one. Just like Uber and so many others this only works because for some reason turning paid work into something that is not even self-sustaining suddenly is accepted. Does nobody have ethical issues with seeing value in devaluing people?

While I strongly agree with your overall sentiment it's worth noting that this is not a new startup-developed characteristic. The people driving FedEx delivery trucks to your office are independent contractors too.

Fedex settled for hundreds of millions of dollars for misclassifying Ground delivery truck drivers as independent contractors.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN0Z229Q

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