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Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

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Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#31

Post by tertius »

charlesdm wrote: post #18
rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

A bit of both is probably good. For example: in Belgium, in recent years a lot of kids are (often) given points for effort so they can pass a certain grade. More and more the case. I talked to a teacher friend about this, and while he thinks its great, I think it's ridiculous. Do we want a society of people who put in some effort yet achieve nothing? Now, not that I think the educational system shouldn't be flexible…

Grades should be solely based on production. But intelligence without work is useless.

Effort should be praised, but not rewarded if it's result did not get anyone further than they were before.

Getting all B's is not a very good indicator of anything...

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#32

Post by tertius »

b3lvedere wrote: post #9

A couple of weeks ago someone introduced me to the idea not only asking your kids if everything is ok, but also ask what went wrong or failed. At first i was a little afraid asking my kids those kind of things, but until now their reaction has been quite positive.

Good idea. Source?

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#33

Post by charlesdm »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #29
charlesdm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of both is probably good. For example: in Belgium, in recent years a lot of kids are (often) given points for effort so they can pass a certain grade. More and more the case. I talked to a teacher friend about this, and while he thinks its great, I think it's ridiculous. Do we want a society of people who put in some effort yet achieve nothing? Now, not that I think the educational system shouldn't be flexible…

That's insane. When I "make an effort" to pay a parking ticket on time and I don't, nobody gives me a shiny sticker star - I have to pay double instead. EDIT: People, I said nothing about children paying parking tickets or about poor people. My comment is an example of a self-inflicted problem that is exacerbated by self-inflicted delay, to which the consequences must be borne by the individual as is the nature of li…

Hah, I should remember that one.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#34

Post by charlesdm »

tertius wrote: post #31
charlesdm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of both is probably good. For example: in Belgium, in recent years a lot of kids are (often) given points for effort so they can pass a certain grade. More and more the case. I talked to a teacher friend about this, and while he thinks its great, I think it's ridiculous. Do we want a society of people who put in some effort yet achieve nothing? Now, not that I think the educational system shouldn't be flexible…

Grades should be solely based on production. But intelligence without work is useless. Effort should be praised, but not rewarded if it's result did not get anyone further than they were before. Getting all B's is not a very good indicator of anything...

Right. Grades in itself are often also not a good metric. There are plenty of intelligent kids who just skate through school achieving acceptable yet not amazing results, and you have others who have to work really hard to achieve similar results.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#36

Post by drawkbox »

rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

It is important to balance both but the single most important one is allowing kids to fail, and then teaching them how to improve on that or learn from that experience.

The journey and the reward on completion are important, but the most important is teaching them improvement to prevent coasting. In life, success comes from many integration and market tests, tests can be failed but once you pass you have a solid release iteration and improvement, continuously build on that by comparing yourself to yourself via diffs at checkpoints.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#37

Post by icebraining »

charlesdm wrote: post #18
rkowalick wrote: post #4

I have been told that praising a kid for effort vs. results is much more important. As a child, I was told I was smart and basically tried to coast as much as possible. I still have a lot of trouble learning how to do something new, especially because I have kind of internalized that I'm good at everything.

A bit of both is probably good. For example: in Belgium, in recent years a lot of kids are (often) given points for effort so they can pass a certain grade. More and more the case. I talked to a teacher friend about this, and while he thinks its great, I think it's ridiculous. Do we want a society of people who put in some effort yet achieve nothing? Now, not that I think the educational system shouldn't be flexible…

OTOH, if a kid makes a lot of effort and still fails, is the kid to blame or the teachers? Isn't their job (and of the parents, I suppose) to guide those efforts in a productive direction?

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#38

Post by rtpg »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #29
charlesdm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of both is probably good. For example: in Belgium, in recent years a lot of kids are (often) given points for effort so they can pass a certain grade. More and more the case. I talked to a teacher friend about this, and while he thinks its great, I think it's ridiculous. Do we want a society of people who put in some effort yet achieve nothing? Now, not that I think the educational system shouldn't be flexible…

That's insane. When I "make an effort" to pay a parking ticket on time and I don't, nobody gives me a shiny sticker star - I have to pay double instead. EDIT: People, I said nothing about children paying parking tickets or about poor people. My comment is an example of a self-inflicted problem that is exacerbated by self-inflicted delay, to which the consequences must be borne by the individual as is the nature of li…

This comment lacks a bit of empathy.

If someone is trying, even if they fail, that means they are more likely to improve if they receive the right sort of feedback or support. Someone who isn't trying lacks even the basic motivation necessary to try.

Instead, if you treat someone who tries and fails the same as someone who doesn't and fails, then there is an incentive for the person to not even try!

For your parking ticket, if you geniunely tried to pay a parking ticket but couldn't (for example because you didn't have the money at the time) it totally doesn't make sense to charge you double. It would make more sense to do something like put you on a payment plan, or otherwise take into account that you have legitimate difficulties. Financial, organizational, or otherwise.

Zero tolerance policies do not "solve problems" because they ignore the individual contexts.

Re: Kids Praised for Being Smart Are More Likely to Cheat

#40

Post by [deleted] »

charlesdm wrote: post #34
tertius wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grades should be solely based on production. But intelligence without work is useless. Effort should be praised, but not rewarded if it's result did not get anyone further than they were before. Getting all B's is not a very good indicator of anything...

Right. Grades in itself are often also not a good metric. There are plenty of intelligent kids who just skate through school achieving acceptable yet not amazing results, and you have others who have to work really hard to achieve similar results.

[deleted]
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