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Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

reuters.com

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Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#31

Post by mmjaa »

meri_dian wrote: post #14
taf2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True they just invade their neighboring countries and say the people living in those places wanted them to help

When was the last time the US invaded a "neighboring" country?

The USA has a policy of not invading local countries, because they're too close to home. So, its mostly power projection "fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them .. here".

Really, this is a fundamental issue to understand. USA is not a peace-bringing nation - it is a war-projection nation. In the same way that one can use fire to fight fires, the USA thinks its war-making is actually bringing peace to the world.

I know - it doesn't make any sense. But, the military-industrial complex which runs the USA doesn't care if you think it makes sense. It only cares about dropping bombs, clearing the shelves of inventory with short half lives, and replacing it with new inventory.

EDIT: the claim that USA's wars are "just, righteous wars" is highly specious and, frankly, risible. The USA has toppled more democratically elected officials than any other nation in the history of mankind. I urge you to consider the hubris of the statement: "the USA only fights good wars", because there is fiction, and there is fact.

The fact is, a lot of people in democratic societies around the world feel that the USA hasn't fought a good war since WW2, and in fact that the opposite is true: the USA fights to put its own dictators into power. Even a casual investigation of this fact yields more than enough evidence to support the statement: the USA is up to no good.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#32

Post by [deleted] »

meri_dian wrote: post #26
zimpenfish wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Panama (1989) was an invasion with troops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Pana...

Yes, almost 30 years ago the US invaded Panama to depose a dictator who had turned Panama into an international money laundering and drug smuggling center.

[deleted]

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#33

Post by mmjaa »

jasonmaydie wrote: post #9
Lendal wrote: post #8

> Snowden’s revelations have hurt the United States’ relations with some allies and slowed the sales of U.S. technology products abroad. So it wasn't the spying that hurt the relations, it was Snowden. Okay. I'll stop reading now. This news source just discredited itself.

All countries spy. In fact it is imperative that they do

Wake me up when Austrian malware causes a total collapse of key infrastructure projects in a developing nation that didn't deserve it...

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#34

Post by throwaway5752 »

mmjaa wrote: post #5
throwaway5752 wrote: post #3

It's amazing to me that Russian espionage has been able to turn Western media against itself. Russia, China and every other advanced nation do the same things to the limits of their capability. Russia, in particular, killed a bunch of journalists over domestic intelligence operations, though. But people just eat up the stories about the US uncritically.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

Syria, Ukraine/Crimea, Georgia/Ossetia, Chechnya/Dagestan... they brutally (not used lightly, Google it) put down N. Caucus uprisings and they've flat out stolen land from Western border countries. That's not counting their own cyberwarfare efforts, which is presumably where they are investing heavily out of a recognition of the asymmetries. They sell weapons all over the world and are 2nd worst in that respect to the US.

I have no idea why people need to set up good/bad dualities. Whatever bad things the US has done, none of them make Russian any better.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#35

Post by [deleted] »

jasonmaydie wrote: post #11
mmjaa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

The same power that has kept the world peace for the last 50 years? How is that a bad thing?

[deleted]

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#36

Post by mmjaa »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #34
mmjaa wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

Syria, Ukraine/Crimea, Georgia/Ossetia, Chechnya/Dagestan... they brutally (not used lightly, Google it) put down N. Caucus uprisings and they've flat out stolen land from Western border countries. That's not counting their own cyberwarfare efforts, which is presumably where they are investing heavily out of a recognition of the asymmetries. They sell weapons all over the world and are 2nd worst in that respect to th…

Russia is not invading and destroying foreign sovereign nations around the world. It is protecting its borders and its local territory.

The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery.

Its not a duality - but if you want to be honest about the hostile intentions of nations, you have to look at the most hostile state there is: the USA. The stats are not pretty.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#37

Post by meri_dian »

mmjaa wrote: post #31
meri_dian wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time the US invaded a "neighboring" country?

The USA has a policy of not invading local countries, because they're too close to home. So, its mostly power projection "fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them .. here". Really, this is a fundamental issue to understand. USA is not a peace-bringing nation - it is a war-projection nation. In the same way that one can use fire to fight fires, the USA thinks its war-making is actually bringing peace t…

The wars the US has involved itself in post-WW2 have almost always been wars with the aim of:

1. Preventing the spread of Soviet backed Authoritarian Communism.

2. Removing brutal dictators from power.

Both noble and justifiable goals.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#38

Post by batushka »

meri_dian wrote: post #14
taf2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True they just invade their neighboring countries and say the people living in those places wanted them to help

When was the last time the US invaded a "neighboring" country?

Usually it's a salvation to be occupied by US compared to Russia - they just kill, steal and trash territory making it doomed (Transnistria, Osetia, Ukraine teritories, Kuril islands) - a true Mordor.

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#39

Post by notfromhere »

mmjaa wrote: post #5
throwaway5752 wrote: post #3

It's amazing to me that Russian espionage has been able to turn Western media against itself. Russia, China and every other advanced nation do the same things to the limits of their capability. Russia, in particular, killed a bunch of journalists over domestic intelligence operations, though. But people just eat up the stories about the US uncritically.

I think the fact that the US is engaged in open warfare around the world has a lot to do with it. Russia has its problems - but it hasn't deployed $Trillions of military assets around the world in order to project power, like the USA has. That has definitely got to count for something.

Did you forget about the Cold War?

Re: Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015)

#40

Post by Mouse47 »

Lendal wrote: post #8

> Snowden’s revelations have hurt the United States’ relations with some allies and slowed the sales of U.S. technology products abroad. So it wasn't the spying that hurt the relations, it was Snowden. Okay. I'll stop reading now. This news source just discredited itself.

That's an awfully uncharitable reading of that sentence. Let me emphasize this for you:

>Snowden’s revelations have hurt the United States’ relations with some allies and slowed the sales of U.S. technology products abroad.

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