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Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

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Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#31

Post by wil421 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #17
abakker wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be correct in some domains, but farming isn't one. You simply can't grow all crops in all places, nor is that allocation of land a good use. Barley grows well in flat fields. Not so well in the wooded hills outside Atlanta. Hops won't grow at all where it doesn't freeze in the winter, and basil needs lots of sun and water. We've mostly optimized where we grow crops for land use and yield already, so…

> I'm not sure how automation of labor democratizes supply. It puts the control back in the hands of consumers of the product, instead of producers (which is more often than not, multinationals or large corporations who are motivated to extract as much profit as possible from their business transactions). You do not have time or resources to farm your own plot of land (generally speaking, hand waving away the homeste…

Who do you really think will own the robots? It will be the multinational corporations again. Food is decently cheap already considering I have to eat multiple times a day. People will just spend their money on some place else. Like you said another corporation will extract profit from other transactions.

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#32

Post by losteric »

QAPereo wrote: post #23
ModernMech wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially if said robots can run on the weeds and bugs they are removing!

So basically ladybugs, but with a profit margin and TOS.

Not invented here, not relevant! /s

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#33

Post by bamboozled »

Houshalter wrote: post #19
thomas_howland wrote: post #4

The amount of labor involved in grain crops like barley per dollar of output is minimal already - the guy running the tractor/combine/etc is mostly making sure nothing breaks and keeping an eye on things (which is important when you're operating $N00,000 worth of heavy equipment on open ground). You do need guys, however, for when things do go wrong, and for all the other farm tasks (equipment maintenance, fencing, m…

Yeah this isn't terribly exciting. People have been demoing self driving tractors and farm machinery for decades. Ford had one in the 1950s. Most of the hard work like actually picking the crop has already been solved, and making the tractor self driving just saves a few hours of work at most. What would be really cool is automating crops that still require lots of manual labor. Like vegetables. That's the reason the…

That's the reason they are still so expensive.

My observations have been that vegetables are so inexpensive they're often thrown away?

Obviously these cheap crops are often grown in a monetarily cheap but environmentally destructive way but I've no idea where you're seeing these expensive vegetables for sale?

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#34

Post by toomuchtodo »

wil421 wrote: post #31
toomuchtodo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure how automation of labor democratizes supply. It puts the control back in the hands of consumers of the product, instead of producers (which is more often than not, multinationals or large corporations who are motivated to extract as much profit as possible from their business transactions). You do not have time or resources to farm your own plot of land (generally speaking, hand waving away the homeste…

Who do you really think will own the robots? It will be the multinational corporations again. Food is decently cheap already considering I have to eat multiple times a day. People will just spend their money on some place else. Like you said another corporation will extract profit from other transactions.

> Who do you really think will own the robots?

Well, society gets a say. Witness how both Canada and India have invalidated pharma patents, and how the US DoD is permitted to nullify patents when it suits them for strategic purposes [1].

Also, the US government can infringe on a patent with limited resource of the patent holder.

"Can the U.S. Government Infringe a U.S. Patent? (The U.S. Government Says it’s Impossible)"

"Although a patentee can sue the U.S. government for unlicensed use of its invention, Congress requires that those cases be filed in the Court of Federal Claims (CFC) rather than in district court. No jury trial is available, and the only remedy is a reasonable royalty." [2]

I think its a bit defeatist to throw your arms up in the air and say "there is no hope, big companies will always win", but I'm an optimist.

[1] https://www.wired.com/2013/04/gov-secrecy-orders-on-patents/

[2] https://patentlyo.com/patent/2015/09/government-infringe-imp...

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#35

Post by randomdata »

joncp wrote: post #15
thomas_howland wrote: post #4

The amount of labor involved in grain crops like barley per dollar of output is minimal already - the guy running the tractor/combine/etc is mostly making sure nothing breaks and keeping an eye on things (which is important when you're operating $N00,000 worth of heavy equipment on open ground). You do need guys, however, for when things do go wrong, and for all the other farm tasks (equipment maintenance, fencing, m…

Imagine, though, a time when the automation reaches a stage where all weeding and most insect killing can be done mechanically with a robot instead of chemically with pesticides. That will be a huge boon for the environment and for farmers' bottom lines.

The environment perhaps, but would it really be better for the bottom line? Mechanical weed control already lost out to chemicals because the chemicals were cheaper.

On top of that, chemical applicators are relatively simple and proven technology with few moving parts. Farm equipment isn't like your car that can go 100,000 miles without problem. Moving parts on farm equipment will break – constantly. On top of that, computer technology does not come cheap when it is low volume specialized systems, built to withstand the harsh environments of agriculture.

I have no doubt the technology is possible, but I do wonder if it is possible in a price range that would actually improve the bottom line.

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#36

Post by maxerickson »

randomdata wrote: post #35
joncp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine, though, a time when the automation reaches a stage where all weeding and most insect killing can be done mechanically with a robot instead of chemically with pesticides. That will be a huge boon for the environment and for farmers' bottom lines.

The environment perhaps, but would it really be better for the bottom line? Mechanical weed control already lost out to chemicals because the chemicals were cheaper. On top of that, chemical applicators are relatively simple and proven technology with few moving parts. Farm equipment isn't like your car that can go 100,000 miles without problem. Moving parts on farm equipment will break – constantly . On top of that,…

It only has to be cheap enough to make banning various pesticides reasonable.

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#37

Post by Gustomaximus »

joncp wrote: post #15
thomas_howland wrote: post #4

The amount of labor involved in grain crops like barley per dollar of output is minimal already - the guy running the tractor/combine/etc is mostly making sure nothing breaks and keeping an eye on things (which is important when you're operating $N00,000 worth of heavy equipment on open ground). You do need guys, however, for when things do go wrong, and for all the other farm tasks (equipment maintenance, fencing, m…

Imagine, though, a time when the automation reaches a stage where all weeding and most insect killing can be done mechanically with a robot instead of chemically with pesticides. That will be a huge boon for the environment and for farmers' bottom lines.

I think this is the key vs the planting side. Maybe soil monitoring and watering/fertilising at a micro level.

If someone can make a drone to fly around and take out pests like fruitfly that would be a massive step forward vs spraying.

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#38

Post by Alex3917 »

thomas_howland wrote: post #4

The amount of labor involved in grain crops like barley per dollar of output is minimal already - the guy running the tractor/combine/etc is mostly making sure nothing breaks and keeping an eye on things (which is important when you're operating $N00,000 worth of heavy equipment on open ground). You do need guys, however, for when things do go wrong, and for all the other farm tasks (equipment maintenance, fencing, m…

> The amount of labor involved in grain crops like barley per dollar of output is minimal already

What crops have the highest labor costs, in both absolute dollars and as a percentage of what the consumer pays?

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#39

Post by losteric »

jefflombardjr wrote: post #25

Do this for small scale non-monoculture farming and I will be impressed. This is just a marginal productivity gain for factory farming.

You're right... it's just like how early commercial computers were productivity gains for large corporations.

New tech is expensive and not very good - only big businesses see positive ROI. As some technology matures, it becomes a commodity for everyone.

Small farms could go do this right now. It just wouldn't make financial sense.

Re: Autonomous Robots Plant, Tend, and Harvest Entire Crop of Barley

#40

Post by Gustomaximus »

randomdata wrote: post #9

> There’s still dirt, early mornings, dirt, more dirt I have always wondered who are these farmers in the dirt in the early morning? Where I farm the environment is rarely suitable for 'being in the dirt' in the morning. Typically the field work starts in the mid-afternoon after the sun has had a chance to dry up the morning's dew or previous days rain. There are definitely some late nights though.

Im on a small hobby farm outside Brisbane. Mid afternoon you want to be inside to get out of the heat. Mornings are prime time to get things done. Or later afteenoon.
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