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IPv10

tools.ietf.org

31–40 of 132 posts

Re: IPv10

#31
post #21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ipv4-only users still need a way to specify an ipv6 address to talk to ipv6-only users. This RFC seems to suggest that they should just send an ipv10 packet. But then they wouldn't be ipv4-only anymore, and might as well adopt ipv6.

I think the idea here is to have to update the end points only, not having to upgrade the expensive infrastructure in between, which was the reason IPv6 was so slow to be adopted in the first place.

I don't think that's possible. The routers are the ones that need to decode the IPv10 packet, see if it contains an IPv4 or IPv6 destination and route accordingly. From my reading of the RFC that means all routers, not just the customer appliances. It kinda feels like IPv6 all over again.

> That means, if the received IPv10 packet contains an IPv4 address in the destination address field, the router should use the IPv4 routing table to make a routing decision, and if the received IPv10 packet contains an IPv6 address in the destination address field, the router should use the IPv6 routing table to make a routing decision.

Most consumer routers don't really maintain routing tables (aside form some static mappings for you internal network) so this appears targetted at actual internet/ISP routers.

Those big expensive things that we regularly replace and provide with updates.

Decoding internet packets at scale is usually done inside hardware so at the very least we'll need new ASICs for this I'm guessing.

> [..] and the IPv10 deployment process can be accomplished by ALL technology companies developing OSs for hosts networking and security devices. [..]

Sometime further down the line this shows up though:

> [..] and it is just a software development process in the NIC cards of all hosts to allow encapsulating both IPv4 and IPv6 in the same IP packet header. [..]

I'm not quite sure what the author is getting at but packet encapsulation isn't cheap, you usually don't want to do that in software for large routers, unless they're outfitted with FPGAs for this purpose and you reprogram those instead. I've also never actually seen a firmware update for my NIC show up so I wonder how they envision that happening. Even if that's the case, you'd then still need to update all hosts, which to me seems far from trivial.

Re: IPv10

#32

As a side note, I was very confused about IPv6 addresses popping up in my server logs when I knew it only had IPv4 provisioned. Turns out CloudFlare had automatically published AAAA records for my domain and was v6-to-v4 proxying my inbound HTTP/HTTPS traffic. For free! Just another reason to love CloudFlare.

That's... cute. But not breaking anything, so, huh. Not bad.

Re: IPv10

#33
post #21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ipv4-only users still need a way to specify an ipv6 address to talk to ipv6-only users. This RFC seems to suggest that they should just send an ipv10 packet. But then they wouldn't be ipv4-only anymore, and might as well adopt ipv6.

I think the idea here is to have to update the end points only, not having to upgrade the expensive infrastructure in between, which was the reason IPv6 was so slow to be adopted in the first place.

[deleted]

Re: IPv10

#34
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will it fix it? This seems like a scaling issue we're going to have to deal with forever.

You may be underestimating how many IPv6 addresses there are! 2^128 is huge. Like, if we assigned one trillion new addresses every second since the birth of the universe, we’d still have enough left over to do the same in another 800 million parallel universes. Truly astronomical numbers. Obviously not all of these addresses will be used; in practice we aren’t going to run out any time soon.

For reference, 2^128 = 340282366920938463463374607431768211456

or

340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456

Re: IPv10

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPv6 has a 2^128 address pool. edit: theoretically, we'll only ever use a fraction of that, both by design and because that's a huge number

Well, because there is no equivalent to CIDR with IPv6, what you really need to focus on is the 2^64 networks available. Still a big number.

That's what I meant in my edit :)

Re: IPv10

#36
I guess all it takes to push a draft is hubris. The clear fact it hasn't received editorial feedback from a single native speaker is an indication how popular this is. (not to shame non-native speakers!)

Re: IPv10

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPv6 has a 2^128 address pool. edit: theoretically, we'll only ever use a fraction of that, both by design and because that's a huge number

Well, because there is no equivalent to CIDR with IPv6, what you really need to focus on is the 2^64 networks available. Still a big number.

And yet I still have /127, /126, /120 and /112 IPv6 subnets running on my network.

Just because the IETF says SLAAC or bust doesn't mean it's true.

Re: IPv10

#38
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will it fix it? This seems like a scaling issue we're going to have to deal with forever.

You may be underestimating how many IPv6 addresses there are! 2^128 is huge. Like, if we assigned one trillion new addresses every second since the birth of the universe, we’d still have enough left over to do the same in another 800 million parallel universes. Truly astronomical numbers. Obviously not all of these addresses will be used; in practice we aren’t going to run out any time soon.

While you're right, it is huge. This mistake has been made in computing time and time again. You think you've got adequate scale for your solution but you didn't anticipate X which introduces new growth that out paces your design.

Re: IPv10

#40
post #10

Mildly off-topic, but I've always wondered about having a non-fixed length address scheme: if there are 64 bits in the address, let the first 8 bits (64/8 = 8) be 1 and the 9th bit be 0. This way we encode the length of the address. After that, every bit is available for use (all 64 - 9 = 55 bits). Suddenly want to increase the domain from 2^55 to something much higher? Use a 15-byte address where the first 15 bits a…

Your method is essentially how UTF-8 works. I think the problem is implementing that efficiently in hardware, which is needed for routers.
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