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Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

uanews.arizona.edu

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Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#31

Post by yorwba »

BuckRogers wrote: post #8
cooper12 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit that link you shared was so frustrating to read. To think of all the productive things a great intellectual like Chomsky could be doing with his time. Instead he generously chose to engage someone who had already made their conclusion and just wanted to "debate" without actually ceding to any points (take a shot any time OP says "liberal" or "PC"). He even hints at OP's "intentional ignorance" many times to…

That's why whenever I speak to someone and they have a strong opinion I like to ask them how many books they've read on that subject. It's almost always zero. You can pretty much instantly discard anyone like that as it's a decent baseline litmus test. If you really cared about something, you would read at least one if not multiple books on the subject. Anything less is just laziness and someone who wants to get an e…

> If you really cared about something, you would read at least one if not multiple books on the subject.

I'm not sure how true that is anymore. If by "book" you mean "monothematic long-form treatise by a small number of authors" then I have read essentially zero books in the past year, although I have done a great deal of reading otherwise. Research papers, magazines, blog posts, Wikipedia articles, cherry-picked single chapters of books can in aggregate absolutely stand in for a few books. And then there are sources of knowledge that go beyond reading, such as personal experience, original research, attending talks, etc.

I think your test would be more accurate if you asked more generally how they learned what they know about the matter.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#32

Post by RobertoG »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #29
RobertoG wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you want to point to Chomsky opinions about Venezuela and this is the best link you can find?

No that was the first video on Google search, which I quickly looked over, and had the necessary quotes from Chomsky to validate my point.

Chomsky opinion about Venezuela is not so difficult to understand if we make a honest effort. Unfortunately a honest effort, as reflected by your link, is not very common.

Chomsky supported initially Chavez, (who, by the way, and not as your link insinuate, was democratically elected), because his government initially improved the conditions of the most humble people in the country. People that lived in misery in one of the most resources rich countries in the world, elected what was then, a new hope.

As frequently happen, the new elite was incompetent, and get corrupted fast. Consequently, Chomsky criticized them.

Here there is video of Chomsky criticizing the Venezuela government:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHgtLp21Iw

And, for completion sake, here there is a video of the government of Venezuela criticizing Chomsky's criticism of them (in Spanish only, sorry):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urS1nx3EccI

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#33

Post by [deleted] »

thomasahle wrote: post #14
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://youtu.be/HHTe2Pn7ACg He praises the Venezuela's state socialist policies, but manages to blame the problems on private capital.

That video has frustratingly little information. Except for the hosts rage and short quotes from a supposed conversation with Chomsky; the only actual study mentioned is discarded immediately on basis of its author having advised some movie on the topic that he's an expert on.

[deleted]

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#34

Post by gt_ »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #17
thomasahle wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That video has frustratingly little information. Except for the hosts rage and short quotes from a supposed conversation with Chomsky; the only actual study mentioned is discarded immediately on basis of its author having advised some movie on the topic that he's an expert on.

Just Google Chomsky Chavez or Venezuela. I've heard him give plenty of interviews where he talks about how great Chavez is. Sorry I had just provided the top search result.

I have heard these too and that is a misrepresentation of his statements. He does not say Chavez is great. He makes specific and nuanced arguments about value exemplified in some things Chavez did.

This probably didn't need saying, but what an obnoxious generalization to make.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#35

Post by BjoernKW »

World-renowned linguist and all people are talking about is his political views (mostly by his own design).

Make no mistake, Chomsky's work was significant to both linguistics proper (X-bar theory, generative grammar, universal grammar) and computer science (Chomsky hierarchy).

In recent years though he more often than not comes across as a grumpy old man who can't seem to accept the fact that linguistic theory has moved on to often simpler, more elegant approaches.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#36

Post by myopicgoat »

avip wrote: post #30
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #5

Chomsky is a great critic of social issues like imperialism, manufactured consent, and state capitalism. However he has been proved devastatingly wrong about Venezuela and as of today won't admit the problems with state socialism. I hope his new students realize this.

[EDITed to leave only the point I'm confident about] a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy

As much as Chomsky may have been incorrect, I think it is foolish to call him "depressingly ignorant" without justifying your statement. His international recognition both in his field and in his commentaries did not appear out of nowhere.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#37

Post by avip »

myopicgoat wrote: post #36
avip wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[EDITed to leave only the point I'm confident about] a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy

As much as Chomsky may have been incorrect, I think it is foolish to call him "depressingly ignorant" without justifying your statement. His international recognition both in his field and in his commentaries did not appear out of nowhere.

I think I could justify it... but it'll take some work, and is unlikely to ignite any sort of productive discussion - so I'll just edit that out.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#38

Post by [deleted] »

thethirdone wrote: post #13
cooper12 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit that link you shared was so frustrating to read. To think of all the productive things a great intellectual like Chomsky could be doing with his time. Instead he generously chose to engage someone who had already made their conclusion and just wanted to "debate" without actually ceding to any points (take a shot any time OP says "liberal" or "PC"). He even hints at OP's "intentional ignorance" many times to…

> Instead he generously chose to engage someone who had already made their conclusion and just wanted to "debate" without actually ceding to any points (take a shot any time OP says "liberal" or "PC"). Chomsky was not prepared to cede any points either. In many places, he does not respond to the probing questions asked of him at all (this is assuming the poster didn't add them in afterwards) instead opting to insult…

[deleted]

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#39

Post by foldr »

BjoernKW wrote: post #35

World-renowned linguist and all people are talking about is his political views (mostly by his own design). Make no mistake, Chomsky's work was significant to both linguistics proper (X-bar theory, generative grammar, universal grammar) and computer science (Chomsky hierarchy). In recent years though he more often than not comes across as a grumpy old man who can't seem to accept the fact that linguistic theory has m…

> linguistic theory has moved on to often simpler, more elegant approaches.

As a linguist, I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. There have always been alternative approaches. But we have not recently been blessed with any that are clear winners in terms of simplicity and elegance.

Re: Noam Chomsky Joins Faculty at University of Arizona

#40

Post by honestoHeminway »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #22
Bud wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky is a linguistics professor. His students won't presumably have that much reason to care about whether he was right about Venezuela or not.

Still if they are young and impressionable and like his linguistics teachings, they might be lured into believing his opinions on other subjects.

His students might not be just linguists but also some compiler builders learning about context-free-gramars and the chomsky hierarchy
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