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Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

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Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#31

Post by Miner49er »

deckar01 wrote: post #5

> SUSPENSION AND CANCELLATION. Google may in its sole discretion, suspend or cancel Registrant’s Registered Name registration (a) if Registrant breaches this Agreement (including a breach of any of the representations and warranties in Section 7); (b) to comply with a court order or other legal requirement; (c) as required by ICANN, a Registry Operator, or law enforcement; (d) to protect the integrity and stability o…

Interesting. I'm not a lawyer. Could the DailyStorm sue Google over this? I don't see anything in that agreement that says Google could've put their domain on client hold.

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#32

Post by Pfhreak »

nerdponx wrote: post #14
Pfhreak wrote: post #10

The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…

I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slippery slope argument that I personally don't believe. Neo-nazis are such a different class of evil, that it's hard for me to see the same practices being used against someone who is not them. You could say the same about digital surveillance of potential terrorists.

And that's a reasonable argument to make, I think. Someone using that argument could possibly convince me that there's enough to suggest these two cases are the same. This, and a few other comments are giving me some food for thought.

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#33

Post by CaptSpify »

_qwfv wrote: post #19
CaptSpify wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, didn't the Nazis themselves prevent people from voicing concerns for the Jews? I guess I don't see how that's not the same thing, except that it was the bad guys who did it?

The implicit assertion you've made is that Google, Cloudflare, and Godaddy are acting as a moral equivalent to the Nazis?

> Neo-nazis are such a different class of evil, that it's hard for me to see the same practices being used against someone who is not them.

My point is that they used the same tactics (obviously different times/technology/etc) themselves to prevent people from supporting the Jews. So "the same practices being used against someone who is not them" is something that has already happened.

NOTE: My knowledge of history is not great. Let me know if I am incorrect.

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#34

Post by ebola1717 »

apo wrote: post #21
Pfhreak wrote: post #10

The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…

Neo-nazis are such a different class of evil, that it's hard for me to see the same practices being used against someone who is not them. Do you remember how Communists were treated during the McCarthy era?

Do you know what a false equivalency is? They banned a site that no one, even the site runners, would argue isn't explicitly about white nationalism. If anyone bans the likes of Breitbart or InfoWars, then maybe we can start this slippery slope conversation, but until then it's completely disingenuous.

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#35

Post by Pfhreak »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #15
Pfhreak wrote: post #10

The takeaway from this for me is not, "Don't get rid of Nazis", but rather, "Have a clear criteria and process for when you will remove content. Follow that process." Great, 100% agreed with that. Be clear and up front about terms of service, and be clear and open when they are violated. That said, I'm not 100% agreed that "Whatever you use against Neo-Nazis will be used 'against the ones you love'." That's a slipper…

This is already happening. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/24/safe-spaces-un...

Your comment is fairly sparse, but I'm reading that you feel 'safe spaces' are equivalent to Google/GoDaddy/etc. shutting down neo-nazi websites that actively encourage violence against a class of people?

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#36

Post by ebola1717 »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #30
ebola1717 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure to fight for people's rights, you have to fight against nazis. At least that's what all my history books told me we did in world war 2.

as unfortunate as it may be, you not only have to fight against the nazis ideals, but also for their right to hold them and speak them in a public forum, like any other citizen. That's from the history books about the country's founding.

Nope. Nazi speech is banned in Germany cause they learned their lesson.

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#37

Post by CaptSpify »

xupybd wrote: post #20

"It’s unclear whether this is for a limited amount of time, or whether Google has decided to effectively take ownership of the dailystormer.com domain permanently" Wait, what, they can do this? So if I get Google to host my domain they can just take it at will? Given the value of some domains that's insane. Google must be on shaky legal ground here.

I was surprised by this too, but Google is one of the biggest kids on the playground right now, so I guess it's natural for them to throw their weight around.

Obvious note: Outsourcing your stuff to a 3rd party like that is risky, and should be considered so

Re: Fighting Neo-Nazis and the Future of Free Expression

#40

Post by randrews »

CaptSpify wrote: post #22

I'm super proud to be a member of the EFF. It's hard to keep a clear head in emotionally tense times like these. It's groups like the EFF that help everyone. If you can: https://supporters.eff.org/donate

Yep. My reaction to this article exactly. "Hm, I guess I get to keep donating to the EFF."
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