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More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#31

Post by rimliu »

tyingq wrote: post #12
trentnix wrote: post #6

Here is a clue for everyone: you aren't paid according to the value you bring. You are either paid according to some pseudo-arbitrary schedule or you are paid what you can be had for. Unless Google has a secret pay penalty for females, the problem here is women being willing to work for less. No lawsuit is needed to correct that.

What's being alleged is: “They are concerned that women are channeled to levels and positions that pay less than men with similar education and experience,” I have no idea if that's true, but if so, that could be a sort of "secret pay penalty". It is a somewhat difficult path to negotiate at hiring as levels and titles aren't consistent across companies.

I am pretty sure you can find big pay differences when comparing only men with the similar education and experience.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#32

Post by ebola1717 »

Every time an article like this pops up, I see the same sort of response. It's always

- Women don't negotiate

- Women get pregnant

- Women work in lower pay professions

And 90% of the time, the article already accounts for the nuances of those topics. Not to mention these arguments have been answered thoroughly many times over, and a cursory google would reveal that. I just wish people would do some basic research before posting, especially in the light of the Google memo.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#33

Post by [deleted] »

boona wrote: post #29
dragonwriter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? Reading the memo is irrelevant to the fact claim you quoted, which is about the response to the memo, not about it's content. (It's also completely accurate; the memo has been widely condemned on the basis stated.)

The memo was also widely praised, so at best you could say that it's controversial.

[deleted]

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#34

Post by needlessly2 »

golergka wrote: post #18
needlessly2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dynamic of personal choices and psychology is so complicated and so contingent to personal background and current state So these women choose to have lower salaries even though they have the same qualifications/experience?

> it's so complicated So you mean that [strawman simplistic viewpoint]?

> it's so complicated

>fails to actually explain anything at all, except for saying "plz don't down vote me" and a bunch of random generalizations

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#35

Post by alikoneko »

cristianpascu wrote: post #4

Please downvote! It's 2017, an introduction to a sentence I totally hate, and 60 women are suing a progressive company for sexism. One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least? How is this NOT evidence that men and women are different. I've seen countless cases of men fighting and swearing at each other, bragging about themselves,…

And I immediately regret getting back on social media after this. I was honestly hoping I wouldn't see this sort of thing on HN, as I have on Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#36

Post by [deleted] »

trentnix wrote: post #9
josteink wrote: post #8

> The document, which was widely condemned as misogynistic and scientifically inaccurate Citation needed? Have The Guardian actually read the memo? They are re-iterating misconceptions based on Gizmodos original story, where Gizmodo deliberately gave a misleading report, removed sources and incorrectly presented an internal memo for internal discussion as an "anti-diversity manifesto". Even a cursory glance of the ac…

The narrative must be maintained, comrade!

[deleted]

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#37

Post by twobyfour »

anon12345690 wrote: post #16
needlessly2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dynamic of personal choices and psychology is so complicated and so contingent to personal background and current state So these women choose to have lower salaries even though they have the same qualifications/experience?

What if person A asks for a raise but person B doesnt? Salaries are negotiations.

Studies have shown that women pay a penalty for negotiating salary, while men don't.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#38

Post by thesmallestcat »

trentnix wrote: post #6

Here is a clue for everyone: you aren't paid according to the value you bring. You are either paid according to some pseudo-arbitrary schedule or you are paid what you can be had for. Unless Google has a secret pay penalty for females, the problem here is women being willing to work for less. No lawsuit is needed to correct that.

Quite recently, Google was found guilty of colluding to depress engineer salaries via "no poaching" agreements. Google doesn't get the "free market" benefit of the doubt anymore in these matters.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#39

Post by weberc2 »

I've been a bit of a Google fan for a long time, but I'm also afraid of leftist authoritarianism, and their handling of the memo had galvanized me against them. I'm not one for boycotts or overreactions, but the "silencing cultural dissenters" business is simply the antithesis of liberal values, and it's especially wrong coming from a company that purports to be a bastion of freedom and defender of rights. So on the one hand, hang 'em high, but on the other hand, not for failing to sufficiently toe the party line.

Re: More than 60 women consider suing Google, claiming sexism and a pay gap

#40

Post by cristianpascu »

b_ttercup wrote: post #24
cristianpascu wrote: post #4

Please downvote! It's 2017, an introduction to a sentence I totally hate, and 60 women are suing a progressive company for sexism. One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least? How is this NOT evidence that men and women are different. I've seen countless cases of men fighting and swearing at each other, bragging about themselves,…

"One freaking hundred years, or something, after women started voting. What happened in that time? Women were blind to say the least?" Are you suggesting the fact that women did not speak up before indicates that there is nothing worth speaking up about now?

No, I am not suggesting that. Some, not few, women speak up and take action. What's then the difference between women who do and those who don't? Especially if they have the same background. What about the women that, in the same conditions, have no reason to speak up? Or women are victims and need men's help by default?
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