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American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

nytimes.com

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Re: American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

#31

Post by jakevoytko »

I graduated a few years ago, and a common worldview in my graduating class was, "I've put X amount of work in my whole life, so I should hear back from jobs when I apply." It's a flawed line of thought, but it's not common to question things you've been told your whole life. The truth is much more subtle - hard work is important, but working hard towards a goal is what gets you jobs.

It wasn't very common to find someone who tried to make industry contacts, or who helped out inside of their department at special events, or who spent large amounts of spare time trying to improve themselves. They just signed up for a whole bunch of classes and worked their ass off in the classroom. Which is good! But it doesn't translate well into job offers

The kid in the article lacks the fundamentals for getting a job he wants, but at least he seemed willing to compromise on his lofty ideals and MIGHT accept a lesser job in the future. He should listen to his grandfather! "“Scott has got to find somebody who knows someone,” the grandfather said, “someone who can get him to the head of the line.”"

Re: American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

#32

Post by capital_omega »

Tichy wrote: post #27
francoisdevlin wrote: post #4

This kid that turned down a 40K a year gig for something "perfect" is an idiot that deserves what he gets. The first thing I would do if I was looking for a job is... get a job. ANY job. I've got an engineering degree, and I'd start flipping burgers or hauling trash or whatever just to keep working. THEN I would start looking for a more suitable career job. It's pretty simple. As a hiring manager looking at two poten…

To be fair, hunting a job while in another job is much trickier. It actually takes quite some time to write applications and so on (that's how I remember it anyway). Not saying it is impossible, but I can imagine that "just take any job" could be counter productive.

Also, though a lot of people won't admit to it, he's putting himself in danger by taking a mediocre job. He can very easily be typecast into that sort of role for a long time.

Re: American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

#33

Post by roc »

bbwharris wrote: post #5

I hate to say it, but if you have been looking for work for a long time and turn down an offer.... You can't complain. There is a saying about beggars and choosers. I completely understand being in a job that I dislike, but a job that I dislike is better than no job and no prospects of a job. A single position can build a resume and open more doors. This was a foolish mistake it seems. I would love to hear about a fo…

"The conversation I’m going to have with my parents now that I’ve turned down this job is more of a concern to me than turning down the job,"

That's what jumped out at me as the giant, blinking, neon sign. You and I can't turn down an offer and still complain.

But a kid with that mindset absolutely will. He has absolutely no perspective. His parents and grandparents have raised him within Plato's Cave.

Re: American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

#35

Post by capital_omega »

grellas wrote: post #25
francoisdevlin wrote: post #4

This kid that turned down a 40K a year gig for something "perfect" is an idiot that deserves what he gets. The first thing I would do if I was looking for a job is... get a job. ANY job. I've got an engineering degree, and I'd start flipping burgers or hauling trash or whatever just to keep working. THEN I would start looking for a more suitable career job. It's pretty simple. As a hiring manager looking at two poten…

The "American dream" is basically the idea of open-ended opportunity, that is, that one can overcome barriers through hard work and resourcefulness to rise to financial success. The generations of immigrants who came to America throughout the 1800s and early 1900s in particular did not expect to start at the top or to have some predefined path to success. They shined shoes, washed dishes, waited tables, worked on rai…

This is an entirely different country from what it was in the 19th century. Although early industrial America was brutal in a lot of ways that our society isn't, it was possible to "work your way up" then. Now it's not. The work environment in 1900 had a one-tier society-- with extreme inequality and brutality within that tier, but it was still only one tier. Line workers could become foremen who could become managers who could become executives. Now we have multiple tiers and it's nearly impossible to jump from one to another. The people who are running large companies today never worked "regular jobs"-- except during high school and college, maybe, where it doesn't count because career and lifestyle are not on the line-- they went into business school and, although they became "only" middle managers after that, they started on the inside track.

Re: American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

#37

Post by nick-dap »

francoisdevlin wrote: post #4

This kid that turned down a 40K a year gig for something "perfect" is an idiot that deserves what he gets. The first thing I would do if I was looking for a job is... get a job. ANY job. I've got an engineering degree, and I'd start flipping burgers or hauling trash or whatever just to keep working. THEN I would start looking for a more suitable career job. It's pretty simple. As a hiring manager looking at two poten…

Spot on.

If the NY Times want to write a story about an elusive American Dream they should write about us, the Dream Act students, who've been stuck in limbo with no job and no rights in sight because of our broken immigration system.

It feels absolutely devastating to graduate from college, hang that degree on the wall, and realize that you can't even open a bank account.

Re: American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

#38

Post by PonyGumbo »

capital_omega wrote: post #32
Tichy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, hunting a job while in another job is much trickier. It actually takes quite some time to write applications and so on (that's how I remember it anyway). Not saying it is impossible, but I can imagine that "just take any job" could be counter productive.

Also, though a lot of people won't admit to it, he's putting himself in danger by taking a mediocre job. He can very easily be typecast into that sort of role for a long time.

Is it a bigger danger to work in a mediocre job than to have a two year span of unemployment on his resume?

Re: American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

#39

Post by capital_omega »

reader5000 wrote: post #6
francoisdevlin wrote: post #4

This kid that turned down a 40K a year gig for something "perfect" is an idiot that deserves what he gets. The first thing I would do if I was looking for a job is... get a job. ANY job. I've got an engineering degree, and I'd start flipping burgers or hauling trash or whatever just to keep working. THEN I would start looking for a more suitable career job. It's pretty simple. As a hiring manager looking at two poten…

Yeah they could have picked a more sympathetic subject.

He's working odd jobs and as a volunteer firefighter, so he is doing useful work. He's also sending out five resumes per week, which is a lot if he's actually researching the jobs and positions. (I know some people send out 200 per day, but let's not encourage resume spam.) It's not like he's playing video games 14 hours per day. So yes, he is sympathetic.

He's being selective about the work he'll take, but maybe he should be. Put yourself in the employer's perspective. Do you want to hire someone who'll leave in 12 months when something more suitable to his desired career path comes along, or would you rather that he "self-select" out?

Re: American Dream is Elusive for New Generation

#40

Post by kiba »

capital_omega wrote: post #35
grellas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "American dream" is basically the idea of open-ended opportunity, that is, that one can overcome barriers through hard work and resourcefulness to rise to financial success. The generations of immigrants who came to America throughout the 1800s and early 1900s in particular did not expect to start at the top or to have some predefined path to success. They shined shoes, washed dishes, waited tables, worked on rai…

This is an entirely different country from what it was in the 19th century. Although early industrial America was brutal in a lot of ways that our society isn't, it was possible to "work your way up" then. Now it's not. The work environment in 1900 had a one-tier society-- with extreme inequality and brutality within that tier, but it was still only one tier. Line workers could become foremen who could become manager…

You got any evidence to support that?

My family does the exact same thing, except a bit faster. My sister already went to college. My relatives are business owners of nail shops. Granted it's a only a single anecdotal point.

Beside, startups founders plunge automatically to "poverty" level just so they can start their own business and then rise to millionaire status or more if they's successful.

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