Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations • Hacker News Board

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#31

Post by dv_dt » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 6:54 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #17

TimPC wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people feel open salaries and professional organizations inadequately handle specializations. In University sectors there have been effects like: CS lecturers not allowed to be paid more because positions are harder to fill vs say Fine Art History lecturers. I'm not saying that's bad overall, but I can certainly see why CS lecturers might not like it. I think it's fairly easy for these models to fail at bringing…

"CS lecturers not allowed to be paid more because positions are harder to fill vs say Fine Art History lecturers" Why does this sound backwards to me? If a position is hard to fill, wouldn't you want to pay the person more so that they don't leave? Conversely, if a position is easy to fill, wouldn't the university pay less, since if the person leaves they'll be easy to replace? How does paying someone less because th…

Because another game is being played in parallel to the direct one you're thinking about. In the parallel game, if you let people who expect good salaries go, you do go through more immediate replacement costs, but are likely to eventually come across people who aren't so demanding of their salaries and get an accumulation of those, then the employer can win out in the longer term.

I don't know if this strategy even has to pay off in actuality, in the long term, but that actual performance of the strategy isn't as important as maintaining that model of control of labor costs.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#32

Post by Bulkington » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:00 PM UTC

scottLobster wrote: post #18

Seems like most of his advice could be summed up as: "Don't over-complicate the situation". To use his first example, when he's being insulted why spin off into emotional-analysis neverland? What's happening there is you're being abused by an asshole, and you should respond to said abuse and, once that situation is resolved, examine the real issue more thoroughly. I'm speaking as someone who used to think exactly lik…

Not trying to to be flip, but with age and experience much will be revealed. Until then, the author is boxing himself in by coming up with his tidy categories. Some people are naturally glib and conversational, some people can bench press 300 pounds, some people pick up geometry proofs right off the bat; most people can get better--even very good--at any of these things.

For somebody who seems to run into the same issues in all aspects of his life, I can only recommend the Costanza method. [0] I did however begin to wonder if the author was pulling my leg when he complained of partners wanting to talk during sex--because, based on the rest of the post, how is this guy getting laid? FWIW, when in doubt, whisper in French. [1]

[0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0697744/?ref_=ttep_ep10 [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27esprit_de_l%27escalier

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#33

Post by intjk » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #9

Many of this reminds me of lack of self confidence. Being affected by other people's emotions when they are directed at you is also due to the (too) high importance you grant to their opinion of what you'll do or say or respond.

Oh, I see we've met!

My current hypothesis is that a sever lack of self-esteem causes me to rely on esteem from others. But because negative interactions hurt so much more than good interactions feel good, I just end up avoiding others.

There's also my mother's hypothesis that some combination of drugs will fix me. I think this seems improbable, but she claims it's how she was fixed.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#34

Post by accountyaccount » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #14

canadian123456 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open salaries will bring down the salary of anyone willing to negotiate.

How so?

A manager could then point to the salary of someone in the same position and say

"Jane gets paid $X in the same position, it would be unfair to give you a raise and not her"

I don't work somewhere with transparent salaries and I already get that excuse — I've more than once heard "you're kind of already at the top of our range for X position" and "if we pay you anymore you'll be making more than me!"

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#35

Post by oDot » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:02 PM UTC

While it is useful, I disagree with the concept, which to my understanding is:

> I have the following problem: "..I can’t do verbal processing and emotional processing at the same time..." Here are ways to mitigate it.

Mitigation, in my opinion, is secondary to actually solving the problem. I'm not sure whether OP believes it's solvable and chooses to mitigate, or just mitigates because he thinks there's no solution -- either way, I believe it IS solvable.

People who have that problem can learn to do both things at once, A person can gain control of his Farmer/Magi/Warrior aspects instead of just exhibiting a given, and most importantly: People can avoid win the war without engaging in battle. There are so many "fights" going on in that piece, when things can be solved without them.

Don't underestimate your own capabilities.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#36

Post by WJW » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:13 PM UTC

robhunter wrote: post #11

"The Warrior engages in a fight, and might indeed revel in it. Politicians, CEO’s, Lawyers, wheeler-dealers, and used car salesmen fall into this camp." CEO's? Really? Walking into a conversation with a CEO with this stereotype in mind surely impacts the conversation, no?

Walking into any discussion with that mindset impacts the conversation. It might still be the right strategy if the CEO is really like that.

For example, it would probably be a bad choice to go into negotiations with an used car salesman without a "Warrior"-like mindset.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#37

Post by magic_beans » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:22 PM UTC

burritofanatic wrote: post #30

Lift heavy; do Jiu Jitsu - deter the manager from ever attempting to verbally abuse you lest risking discordance. Relish in your newfound mental clarity.

We're talking about a guy who was so paralyzed by the fact that the woman he was having sex with whispered sweet nothings into his ear that he dedicated three paragraphs to unpacking the discomfort it caused...

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#38

Post by danielharrison » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

An alternative approach I use to combat alpha-holes, and general abuse/anger is to not answer the question 100%, or answer with a lot of ambiguity. The goal is to raise more questions than you answer (don't answer them, just throw a curve ball). Couple it with some down-talking and you're good to go.

This throws the attacker into a bit of mental confusion and their anger subsides instantly as they're trying to process this unexpected deviation from their pre-planned storyline. Example:

Ahole: Your code broke while demoing it. You're a shit dev and you should feel shit.

You: You demoed with the alpha code?! Really? Did your mom never tell you to ask before you touch? hope you learnt a lesson today. Maybe you should write some lines.... ' I shall not touch alpha code....'

This is probably an extreme example but it works in every day situations too. The goal is not to argue back at all. Just flip the entire thing on its head and leave them out to dry. If they come to battle with a knife, shoot to kill.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#39

Post by adrianratnapala » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:32 PM UTC

burritofanatic wrote: post #30

Lift heavy; do Jiu Jitsu - deter the manager from ever attempting to verbally abuse you lest risking discordance. Relish in your newfound mental clarity.

I think you are saying the author should be a bit more alpha-male and partly I agree. Though not particularly alpha-male myself, I would have handled the first situtation better by instinctively out-arseholeing the arsehole.

But I would not handle all such social situations so quickly or confidently. And sometimes the moments I miss are opportunities to be nice. The point being that moving along a personality dimension can't replace a missing skill, though it can partially amelirate the effects.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#40

Post by danielharrison » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 7:33 PM UTC

magic_beans wrote: post #37

burritofanatic wrote: post #30

Lift heavy; do Jiu Jitsu - deter the manager from ever attempting to verbally abuse you lest risking discordance. Relish in your newfound mental clarity.

We're talking about a guy who was so paralyzed by the fact that the woman he was having sex with whispered sweet nothings into his ear that he dedicated three paragraphs to unpacking the discomfort it caused...

You joke but I think there's something more at play here. Sounds like the guy cannot multitask at all. Maybe on the spectrum.