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What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

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Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#31

Post by twblalock »

beaner wrote: post #24
twblalock wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the point of a currency is to be a stable and widely accepted medium of exchange. Forking undermines both of those goals. If the US dollar forked, or an EU country left the Euro, it would widely be considered a disaster and a failure of politics and governance. Why should bitcoin be held to a different standard?

Just seems like part of an evolutionary process. Very rarely is software released where version 1.0 is perfect. Maybe if government currencies allowed for these things, they would also be better by now. This is part of the reason why bitcoin remains highly speculative. People point this out like it's a bad thing - the only people who have it are just investors, speculating. But this is part of the process that bootst…

> Just seems like part of an evolutionary process. Very rarely is software released where version 1.0 is perfect. Maybe if government currencies allowed for these things, they would also be better by now.

Let's use the US dollar as an example. In what ways do you think it could be improved if people could fork it?

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#32

Post by lclarkmichalek »

the-dude wrote: post #23
qznc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SegWit is in use by LiteCoin for a year already and the first proposal for Bitcoin was at least two years ago.

Compared to changes of traditional currencies, two years is incredibly fast.

What? Central banks can change fundamental properties about a currency overnight. i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_franc#2011.E2.80.932014:...

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#33

Post by brightball »

twblalock wrote: post #28
jnordwick wrote: post #7

Why do people seem to assume that those most capable of implementing the cryptography, networking, or other code are also those most capable of understanding the economics of cryptocurrencies or determining their future? Most of the arguments against the core team revolve around the economics and future of the coin, but the tech team seems to think that somehow their coding experience gives them insight into that. Bi…

> Why do people seem to assume that those most capable of implementing the cryptography, networking, or other code are also those most capable of understanding the economics of cryptocurrencies or determining their future? I guess I'll give the blunt answer: many proponents of cryptocurrency have views on economics, politics, society, law, and contracts that are ignorant of the way those things really work. Many real…

I've never used bitcoin but one of the core appeals as I understood it was mathematically limited supply to create an inflation proof currency. There seem to be lots of fluctuations in the price but eventually it hit a point of relative stability (in theory at least) with value that increases slightly relative the rate that the dollar inflates.

If that's the case then it certainly does the job.

There are a lot of people out there who are very aware of how their saved money loses value and actively want an alternative that feels "safe". I don't know that Bitcoin is that alternative, but it's definitely trying to be and even I have to admit has been far more successful than I ever would have expected.

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#34

Post by ericb »

twblalock wrote: post #18
wmf wrote: post #15

This "fire Core" situation reminds me of Uber. You can be killing it 24/7 and still get fired if you cause enough non-technical damage.

Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency, so there are many non-technical aspects of it that need to be properly handled. If the people working on the code take it upon themselves to make the non-technical decisions too, they need to be held responsible for the outcome. This really gets at the heart of my dislike for cryptocurrency -- most proponents believe it's supposed to be decentralized and free from the control of…

Take a look at Tezos when it comes out. It tries to solve the governance problem with built-in governance and a system for promotion based on the will of the stakeholders.

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#35

Post by wmf »

icebraining wrote: post #29
twblalock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency, so there are many non-technical aspects of it that need to be properly handled. If the people working on the code take it upon themselves to make the non-technical decisions too, they need to be held responsible for the outcome. This really gets at the heart of my dislike for cryptocurrency -- most proponents believe it's supposed to be decentralized and free from the control of…

It's not, though; the developers can write the code, but they can't force people to upgrade.

They can withhold features that people want by refusing to code them, which is what one of the controversies is about.

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#36

Post by slice_of_life »

Hermel wrote: post #12
jnordwick wrote: post #7

Why do people seem to assume that those most capable of implementing the cryptography, networking, or other code are also those most capable of understanding the economics of cryptocurrencies or determining their future? Most of the arguments against the core team revolve around the economics and future of the coin, but the tech team seems to think that somehow their coding experience gives them insight into that. Bi…

As someone who used to read /r/bitcoin daily for years, I can confirm this. Economic and business considerations are often disregarded, for example the concept of a "window of opportunity" that one can miss when moving too slowly. But what alienated me most from the Bitcoin-community is how the two most important forums do not value freedom of speech. For example, I've been permanently banned from bitcointalk.org for…

The BTC reddit community is the worst! I no longer go there for any BTC related conversations. Zero decorum, literal insults and intolerance towards on-boarders are some of the reasons I'm personally disgruntled.

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#37

Post by twblalock »

brightball wrote: post #33
twblalock wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do people seem to assume that those most capable of implementing the cryptography, networking, or other code are also those most capable of understanding the economics of cryptocurrencies or determining their future? I guess I'll give the blunt answer: many proponents of cryptocurrency have views on economics, politics, society, law, and contracts that are ignorant of the way those things really work. Many real…

I've never used bitcoin but one of the core appeals as I understood it was mathematically limited supply to create an inflation proof currency. There seem to be lots of fluctuations in the price but eventually it hit a point of relative stability (in theory at least) with value that increases slightly relative the rate that the dollar inflates. If that's the case then it certainly does the job. There are a lot of peo…

The cap on mining is actually a good example of an inflexible technical solution for a problem that is better solved through flexible governance. There are several problems with it:

Inflation can be a good thing. It can be used to combat deflation, and the absence of inflation can lead to stagnation via the paradox of thrift. There are certain central bank policies that encourage inflation and are known to work pretty well, including QE, which was demonized by a lot of people but has now been proven an effective aid in the recovery from the 2008 crash.

The bitcoin approach focuses on the money supply only, but there are other factors to inflation. There is general agreement among economists that the money supply is the key driver of inflation in the long term, but in the short term, other factors can be involved.

Inflation is possible with a static supply of money, because the amount of money in circulation (versus the amount of money in savings accounts or bonds, or otherwise locked up) can change.

Inflation can also happen even with a static supply of money and no changes in the amount of money in circulation. An example is an oil price shock, caused by an embargo: oil is an input into many manufacturing processes, as well as people's cars, so a general increase in the prices of goods and services can be expected.

So, the bitcoin approach takes away some valuable monetary policy tools and it doesn't actually prevent inflation in the short term. People shouldn't believe that their bitcoins are protected from inflation.

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#38

Post by wodenokoto »

jnordwick wrote: post #7

Why do people seem to assume that those most capable of implementing the cryptography, networking, or other code are also those most capable of understanding the economics of cryptocurrencies or determining their future? Most of the arguments against the core team revolve around the economics and future of the coin, but the tech team seems to think that somehow their coding experience gives them insight into that. Bi…

> (e.g. making a currency with a fixed amount basically ensures it can never be used to write long term counteracts in).

Bitcoin is digital gold. The idea that is should be used as currency only seems plausible to the biggest proponents of a return to gold standards.

But for everyone who believe in inflationary currency, bitcoin is still a viable value store, which definitely can be used for all sorts of contracts.

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#39

Post by ForHackernews »

jnordwick wrote: post #7

Why do people seem to assume that those most capable of implementing the cryptography, networking, or other code are also those most capable of understanding the economics of cryptocurrencies or determining their future? Most of the arguments against the core team revolve around the economics and future of the coin, but the tech team seems to think that somehow their coding experience gives them insight into that. Bi…

> Bitcoin seems like technically great

Does it? It seems horrendously, even criminally, inefficient to me.

Re: What did Bitcoin Core contributors ever do for us?

#40

Post by twblalock »

icebraining wrote: post #29
twblalock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency, so there are many non-technical aspects of it that need to be properly handled. If the people working on the code take it upon themselves to make the non-technical decisions too, they need to be held responsible for the outcome. This really gets at the heart of my dislike for cryptocurrency -- most proponents believe it's supposed to be decentralized and free from the control of…

It's not, though; the developers can write the code, but they can't force people to upgrade.

If some large exchanges upgrade, and some don't, the consequences are similar to those of a code fork. Suddenly the currency becomes split into two different currencies.
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