Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing' • Hacker News Board

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#31

Post by imperialdrive » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #3

Good. Here's how things should go: 1. First America stops being world police. 2. America plays ball with rest of world (adopts metric system, becomes a leader in climate, shares control of internet, turns concern toward to real issues like asteroids, population growth, health issues, cyber security) 3. Citizens acknowledge that war is a tool for siphoning tax money into the coffers of people with connections/governme…

That may work if nothing else changes, but things would change and likely drastically, and many many peoples lives would be turned upside-down. The upside-down is coming regardless, but I'm hoping delayed past our lifetimes. Modern day humans are great at delaying rather than fixing!

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#32

Post by castis » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

majkinetor wrote: post #20

castis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what we can tell, they've caused mass extinctions before, no reason to believe they won't again.

Mass extinction due to meteor strike is just one hypothesis.

That's 100% of the point.

If other planets/moons/whatever haven't been colonized by the time humanity gets empirical data for that hypothesis, a lot of people are going to wish they'd put that a little higher on the list.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#33

Post by castis » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

djohnston wrote: post #22

castis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what we can tell, they've caused mass extinctions before, no reason to believe they won't again.

i believe that i just don't think the timeline is short enough for it to matter. afaik there is no impending asteroid disaster within the next 1000 years, although there could be hundreds of factors in my ignorance on this matter.

It is not yet possible to know when the next one is going to show up. We are only currently aware of a bunch of rocks that most likely wont hit us.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#34

Post by gremlinsinc » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

djohnston wrote: post #22

castis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what we can tell, they've caused mass extinctions before, no reason to believe they won't again.

i believe that i just don't think the timeline is short enough for it to matter. afaik there is no impending asteroid disaster within the next 1000 years, although there could be hundreds of factors in my ignorance on this matter.

There's not enough data to support this claim. At present the budgets spent on policing space for foreign objects is puny, and currently less than 5% of the night sky is being policed or analyzed. Asteroids can come from a bazillion different trajectories up down left right.. all in 3d space... it's not like looking left/right and left again crossing the street.

It's very possibly an asteroid could strike us and we wouldn't even be aware of it till after the fact, or at the very least till a week or two before it strikes... if it's in one of our blind spots (i.e. the other 95% of the sky)

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#35

Post by alexandercrohde » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

lightbyte wrote: post #6

alexandercrohde wrote: post #3

Good. Here's how things should go: 1. First America stops being world police. 2. America plays ball with rest of world (adopts metric system, becomes a leader in climate, shares control of internet, turns concern toward to real issues like asteroids, population growth, health issues, cyber security) 3. Citizens acknowledge that war is a tool for siphoning tax money into the coffers of people with connections/governme…

This is a laundry list of stuff that will never happen in any current country in any of our life times.

I've heard people say that before, but I don't see why I should believe it. 230 years ago America didn't exist. 150 years ago black people were property. 100 years ago women could not vote. 50 years ago nobody owned a computer. Until recently, weed was illegal.

The world is changing really fast, and the rate of change is getting faster. When people argue "That could never change!" I have to wonder if they have any real evidence... Do you?

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#36

Post by ozmodiar » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 5:58 PM UTC

X86BSD wrote: post #26

camillomiller wrote: post #14

One thing I find particularly funny about the whole Trump-Russia connection and the possibility of Putin & Co. meddling with American Elections, is the disconnect of those that are so blindly outraged about it all. Trump of course should resign if the intervention is proven as deliberate and facilitated by his side, but shall we make a list of all the foreign elections the US have been meddling with in the last 50 ye…

What's hillarious to me is watching the liberal snowflake safe space left foaming at the mouth like rabid dogs about a non issue, theoretical maybe, crime like Russia collusion while completely ignoring the fact the US has not just meddled in elections in other countries but overthrown leaders, assassinated people, and destroyed entire countries with force! And are doing right this minute in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan,…

Since when has the liberal left been okay with those things? In my memory they've been quite vocally opposed to them.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#37

Post by Koshkin » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #3

Good. Here's how things should go: 1. First America stops being world police. 2. America plays ball with rest of world (adopts metric system, becomes a leader in climate, shares control of internet, turns concern toward to real issues like asteroids, population growth, health issues, cyber security) 3. Citizens acknowledge that war is a tool for siphoning tax money into the coffers of people with connections/governme…

> We move toward universalizing language

Perhaps Chinese would be a good choice.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#38

Post by lightbyte » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #35

lightbyte wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a laundry list of stuff that will never happen in any current country in any of our life times.

I've heard people say that before, but I don't see why I should believe it. 230 years ago America didn't exist. 150 years ago black people were property. 100 years ago women could not vote. 50 years ago nobody owned a computer. Until recently, weed was illegal. The world is changing really fast, and the rate of change is getting faster. When people argue "That could never change!" I have to wonder if they have any re…

All those changes you mentioned are trivial compared to completely reworking how human society has functioned for thousands of years.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#39

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #24

mindcrime wrote: post #2

and the authority of governments everywhere is crumbling. Good. potentially undermining trust in incumbent governments for the foreseeable future Even better. Trusting government is a fool's errand. But, the document says, this should not be seen as defeatism, but rather a “wakeup call”. If nothing is done to adapt to this “post-primacy” environment, the complexity and speed of world events will “increasingly defy [D…

And what is your proposed replacement? I've seen a lot of libertarian/ancap complaining about governments, but never any suggestions where the cure isn't worse than the disease. FFS, look at history. When governments collapse, what springs up is never a wonderful, harmonious, anarchist collective. What actually happens is this: a short period of chaos, followed by the public willfully putting a strongman authoritaria…

There's a first time for everything. And things do change. I'd say we, collectively, have a better understanding of how self-government can work now, than we did in the past. Are we "there yet"? I don't know. But I know that what we're doing now isn't working so great.

Re: Pentagon study declares American Empire is 'collapsing'

#40

Post by nnfy » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 6:02 PM UTC

sharemywin wrote: post #12

mindcrime wrote: post #2

and the authority of governments everywhere is crumbling. Good. potentially undermining trust in incumbent governments for the foreseeable future Even better. Trusting government is a fool's errand. But, the document says, this should not be seen as defeatism, but rather a “wakeup call”. If nothing is done to adapt to this “post-primacy” environment, the complexity and speed of world events will “increasingly defy [D…

Then who do you trust no one? computers? corporations? religious leaders? scientists? How do you run society without trust?

>how do you run a society without trust?

You distribute trust and power among actors in a way that is secure and relatively equitable (compared to current power structures). Enter bitcoin and other more versatile cryptocurrencies like Etherium.

Cryptos may form the foundations of a healthier globalism and a new era for the human race, in that we will be less bound to and reliant on government as a separate, opaque power structure. However, there is a long way to go regarding development and adoption, and, let's be real, the overwhelming majority of private citizens may never understand the function or power of cryptos, while government entities will see it as the power threat that it is and may legislate it away while the populace remains ignorant.