I like the worker council idea. Though perhaps a more elegant solution would be to eliminate all corporate tax deductions and set the rate to a flat 20% while taxing co-ops at 5%. Over time, this would Incentivize the formation of co-ops over corporations and reduce the negative effects of having an economy controlled by large corporations.
Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
31–40 of 75 posts
Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#32I hate to get pedantic, but with the misuse of terms for the purpose of demagoguing against those with more capital, I feel compelled to point out that an employment relationship is wholly contractual, and therefore not a "tyranny", and perfectly consistent with a completely democratic society. Maybe the author means "egalitarian" or some other concept tangentially related to democracy. Voluntarily formed hierarchies…
Haven't read the article... but my response to you is that not every "contractual" agreement is voluntary. Think people working minimum wage jobs to feed their children, or children working in sweatshops in asia. I get what you are saying... that it is a click bait title, but the fact remains that the late-stage capitalistic hierarchies that form are not totally unlike other labor systems (indentured servitude/slaver…
I agree the issue is complex, and I wish there was more balanced discussion throughout. You can not simply ignore the control large corporations have throughout society just because it is not the "monopoly of violence" that a civil government has.
We need to think about these problems in context of time, and the decisions made over time. A stork does not drop a baby off at your door, and a company does not accumulate/generate wealth overnight (although, companies are turning over more rapidly recently). We need to make sure the correct incentives/systems are in place to ensure healthy, decentralized, competition.
Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#33The article mentions that the industrial revolution has made it too difficult for small business to compete with large companies. To solve that problem, let's eliminate all taxes for everyone making less than $100k. No income tax, no payroll tax, no property tax, no sales tax, no...
I personally am drawn to this idea. $100k seems arbitrary though. I would like to see it adjusted for the COL of an average American family. Would you happen to have any reading material or studies related to this tax scheme?
Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is a minimum wage job not optional? People stay in their minimum wage jobs because it is better than their other options, not because the company forces them too. Really, the company giving the person their minimum wage job is more 'moral' than the other companies in the area, because the other companies offered an even worse job, or didn't offer one at all.
I mean, I guess giving up and letting your family or yourself starve is an option. For a lot of folks in low wage positions, the mere act of looking for an alternative puts their current wages in jeopardy. Their employer may decide they're now disloyal and sack them. They bring home less money because they have to spend unpaid time searching for a new gig -- they'd do it outside of work hours, but at some point you h…
Yea, so the company provides a significant benefit, because without them the person would starve. I don't see why any of that is the companies problem, should they pay people more money just to be nice? The governments job is to ensure that regulations allow people to switch jobs without putting their family in jeopardy by having unemployment benefits, food stamps, etc, not the companies job.
Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I don't understand the need to compare the structure of a business to the structure of a countries government in the first place. Employment relationships are contractual, and completely voluntary. People need income to live, sure, but they are not forced to work for any one person or company to receive that income. The working conditions mentioned in the article are insane, but you "vote" by choosing not to wo…
Eh I don't know if I would describe all employment contracts as completely voluntary. There are plenty of workers without the ability to change jobs easily. If you're broke, have kids, and have few skills, it's very hard to change careers.
Difficult to change yes, but you are not obligated or physically forced to stay with any one country.
If it were a true dictatorship, as the article claims, you would have no say in where you apply, what you accept, when you decide to leave, etc.
Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I don't understand the need to compare the structure of a business to the structure of a countries government in the first place. Employment relationships are contractual, and completely voluntary. People need income to live, sure, but they are not forced to work for any one person or company to receive that income. The working conditions mentioned in the article are insane, but you "vote" by choosing not to wo…
>completely voluntary. People need income to live, sure, but they are not forced to work for any one person Would chattel slavery be voluntary too if the slaves had a degree of choice over which master used them?
No, and it's not even close to the same thing. Your argument is just as ridiculous as the original article.
People were literally considered pieces of property under chattel slavery. "Salary slavery" is nowhere near as horrific or demeaning as real slavery, and it's frankly an offensive comparison to make.
If you want to never work a job in your life, pan handle on the streets, live off your relatives, or become a recluse, you are completely free to do so. Nobody is holding a gun (or a whip) over you and demanding you work.
Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#37I hate to get pedantic, but with the misuse of terms for the purpose of demagoguing against those with more capital, I feel compelled to point out that an employment relationship is wholly contractual, and therefore not a "tyranny", and perfectly consistent with a completely democratic society. Maybe the author means "egalitarian" or some other concept tangentially related to democracy. Voluntarily formed hierarchies…
A better example would be schools, which are definitely run as tyrannies, and where the students are legally compelled to stay in place.
Democratic schools do exist, but they are few and far in between.
Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#38Agree. The central idea behind capitalism is a hard logical division between employment and ownership, so it's almost tautological to say that workplaces are small tyrannies- but it's good to see someone say it. I mean, I think the real issue with our democracy might be that we've never experienced it on a personal level, so we don't really understand how government by the people is even supposed to work. Our day to…
I have the same thoughts every July 4th. I ask myself 'what exactly am I celebrating here?' Our rights and freedoms seem heavily curtailed and most people have to work and are wage slaves in service of their debts. I am debt-free, but have not yet managed to extract myself from this system. Health insurance is a big reason why. Also, there are few part-time jobs that pay anything and although I have been attempting a…
I agree overall, but I would say that in terms of your work killing your body, software dev is clearly much less destructive than, say, working in construction. But likely anything you do nonstop for hours on end is going to exact a toll. I am interested in what you think the purpose of the our system is - social control? Simple snatch-and-grab by the 1% ?
Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
>completely voluntary. People need income to live, sure, but they are not forced to work for any one person Would chattel slavery be voluntary too if the slaves had a degree of choice over which master used them?
No, and it's not even close to the same thing. Your argument is just as ridiculous as the original article. People were literally considered pieces of property under chattel slavery. "Salary slavery" is nowhere near as horrific or demeaning as real slavery, and it's frankly an offensive comparison to make. If you want to never work a job in your life, pan handle on the streets, live off your relatives, or become a re…
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Re: Americans think they live in a democracy. But workplaces are small tyrannies
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see it that way at all. Trump is not responsible for what has taken place here, as fun as it is to blame him. I see him as someone who is trying to undo a lot of the problems and fix them but he has no support from either the Democrats or the Republicans because both sides are vested in continuing the slave plantation that we have here in service of the ultra .01%. In Trump, we have a guy who is part of the s…
Trump isn't interested in actually fixing things, and I don't know what evidence has led you believe he is.
When politicians keep their campaign promises, that is democracy working properly.
President Trump is keeping his campaign promises to reform lobbying[1], cracking down on illegal immigration[2], cracking down on ISIS[3], and he's making America no longer be the world's police officer[4].
[1] http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-sets-5-year-lifeti...
[2] http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/economy/sd-fi-b...
[3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/15/us-mother-of-a...
[4] http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/donald-trump-congress-...