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Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

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Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#31

Post by busterarm »

skylark wrote: post #21

I find bootcamps to be an interesting industry. The general perception is that they're learning institutions, but that couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, bootcamps are technical recruitment agencies. Companies are realizing that smart, motivated people with no CS degree can still oftentimes excel in the majority of positions (primarily app development.) The problem is finding those people. Bootcamps have…

Early Dev Bootcamp grads I know are pretty talented, but over the last couple years they seem to be the bootcamp of choice for people with less prior experience (that's a good thing) and less commitment to their own personal development & the industry (that's a bad thing). Those two things combined are a disaster.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#32

Post by austenallred »

skylark wrote: post #21

I find bootcamps to be an interesting industry. The general perception is that they're learning institutions, but that couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, bootcamps are technical recruitment agencies. Companies are realizing that smart, motivated people with no CS degree can still oftentimes excel in the majority of positions (primarily app development.) The problem is finding those people. Bootcamps have…

That's really no different than any university. A lot of the value of Harvard or Stanford is that they only pick the top n% of the country. The signaling factor is as important as the education, often times.

Bootcamps are this weird space where, because they're so short and so expensive, even the most legitimate are considered mediocre by most employers because you can only teach so much in three months.

So you can make it a year long, but then do you charge $40-80k up-front? No one has that kind of money.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#33

Post by busterarm »

taneq wrote: post #18
arikr wrote: post #2

"Hi Andrew, we had actually been working too find a sustainable business model since the very beginning. Ultimately we couldn't find one that didn't sacrifice on our commitment to provide the highest quality program possible while keeping our program open to the most diverse students possible." What does that mean? It seems like this should've been a profitable business - 3000 graduates @ $10k/piece = $30mm revenue.

Translation: To balance the books we would have had to either raise prices or reduce quality, and we didn't want to do either. Kudos to them for making that kind of hard call rather than compromising on their values.

From my perspective, their values were the only thing that made the company insolvent.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#34

Post by phrowaway21231 »

Shereef Bishay sold out his staff and sold out his mission and he's going to the do the same to his staff at Learner's Guild in Oakland! He sold it off to Kaplan for 80M and his staff (with equity) got nothing!!!

I interviewed for a role at Dev bootcamp in 2016 and got an odd feeling from the place and the woman who interviewed me. She took several months to get back to me after I followed up multiple times and wow am I soooo glad I didn't get that.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#35

Post by austenallred »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #30
justin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My youngest brother went through Dev Bootcamp in 2012. He had graduated from a top 30 university but wasn't able to find a great job and had been doing some part time, low skill work. DBC literally changed his life. Post graduation he immediately got a job at a dev shop as a programmer, and now 5 years later is a great developer gainfully employed in Silicon Valley. Not sure why you would shit on the grave of a progr…

Trouble with anecdotes is that it is not data. I'm happy for your brother but that still doesn't change the fact that most bootcamps are overpromising and underdelivering on their promises of gainful employment. It's simply not possible to learn to program in bootcamp time frames. I'm certain if we saw actual numbers it would not be a pretty picture. For the truly motivated it is much better to go to recurse.com or j…

How do you know that? From anecdotes? :)

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#37

Post by austenallred »

taneq wrote: post #18
arikr wrote: post #2

"Hi Andrew, we had actually been working too find a sustainable business model since the very beginning. Ultimately we couldn't find one that didn't sacrifice on our commitment to provide the highest quality program possible while keeping our program open to the most diverse students possible." What does that mean? It seems like this should've been a profitable business - 3000 graduates @ $10k/piece = $30mm revenue.

Translation: To balance the books we would have had to either raise prices or reduce quality, and we didn't want to do either. Kudos to them for making that kind of hard call rather than compromising on their values.

It's bonkers that they couldn't make those numbers work. I can't wrap my head around it or make it not work no matter what I do to the numbers.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#38

Post by bdcravens »

justin wrote: post #23
dkarapetyan wrote: post #12

Good. The idea and intention behind bootcamps is a good one but the current implementation is suspiciously like university of phoenix.

My youngest brother went through Dev Bootcamp in 2012. He had graduated from a top 30 university but wasn't able to find a great job and had been doing some part time, low skill work. DBC literally changed his life. Post graduation he immediately got a job at a dev shop as a programmer, and now 5 years later is a great developer gainfully employed in Silicon Valley. Not sure why you would shit on the grave of a progr…

I think the comment is really about bootcamps in general.

Some people will succeed in development. Many won't. I received very little formal education, mostly self-taught, and I've been very successful. Put me in a bootcamp, I'd likely thrive there as well. I suspect your brother had a knack, and just needed a little direction.

Most criticism is focused at the false promise bootcamps provide. Many grads are barely qualified to be an intern, yet they were sold on promises of employability if they graduated. Even worse are the bootcamps that pad their employment numbers by hiring grads as teaching assistants.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#39

Post by busterarm »

arikr wrote: post #25
dkarapetyan wrote: post #12

Good. The idea and intention behind bootcamps is a good one but the current implementation is suspiciously like university of phoenix.

Not sure why you were downvoted, it's a good point. Many current bootcamps were duping students into promises of jobs, and making them pay large tuition fees up front. Very similar to what the scam universities are known to do - promise how the degree will help someone get a job, and then charge them large fees. A friend of mine did DBC, and my sense was that many of their friends in the program struggled for a long…

21 of the 23 people in my App Academy cohort got jobs. 18 of them within like 3 months. The two that struggled had severe social issues holding them back. We had 5 dropouts who got full refunds.

2+ years on and all of us are still working in the industry.

It really does depend on the bootcamp. How valuable a bootcamp is depends on its style and the individual. Even though I had a positive (but probably unnecessary) experience, I'm not exempt from feeling like they're a bit scammy sometimes.

In my case, they give you a curriculum of the minimum that you need to get a job (really) and some serious pressure to get it done and get that job. Almost anyone who actually gets through it is going to be an asset to most companies that don't need an extremely diverse or exceptional skill set.

For roles I'm looking to hire, would I hire a fresh bootcamp grad? No. Would I hire one with two years experience? You bet your ass.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#40

Post by paloaltokid »

That's too bad.

I've worked with many DBC grads and some nice people came through there. I interviewed many DBC grads and they were definitely all over the place in terms of ability and understanding, but some had everything it took to grow into solid software engineers.

I've worked with some of the instructors as well and they're great folks.

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