Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask a Repair Shop

philip.yurchuk.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 135 posts

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#31

Post by cyphar »

timcederman wrote: post #24
cyphar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that companies (especially Apple) are explicitly trying to make their devices harder to repair -- which is the reason for the whole Right-to-Repair movement[1]. If you want to see how much dodgy stuff repair shops have to go through to figure out how to fix Apple products, check out the channels of Louis Rossman[2] and Jessa Jones[3]. [1]: http://ifixit.org/right [2]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC…

Louis Rossman has an axe to grind, and from the recent iFixit teardowns, other manufacturers, particularly Microsoft, have been worse than Apple for repairability. But there are trade-offs... fixing my iPhone 5S back panel was a huge pain. But - I could do it! And it was cheap! And I get a device that's tiny, resilient, and generally a wonder. I've seen devices and repairs evolve from the 80s through to now, and I st…

Louis's axe grinding is not without justification. But I don't disagree that these days repairing your own devices is much easier than it was 50 years ago. My point was that companies are trying to counteract that by creating devices and instituting (possibly illegal in some countries) policies that are anti-consumer repair.

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#32

Post by richdougherty »

I did this when I was choosing a laptop. I called up a few laptop repair shops. It as so helpful! They could tell me what was junk and what was OK.

I also do something like this this when choosing a new ISP. I call the support line instead of the sales line. Somehow ISPs can answer sales enquiries instantly while support calls take 45 minutes to answer. This strategy has led me to use some of the smaller (slightly more expensive) ISPs, because I know they'll answer almost straight away.

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#33

Post by Nition »

kd5bjo wrote: post #11

This is mostly the result of our checkbox-grid comparison shopping culture. "Features" like extra coats of paint and thicker metal cost the manufacturer more than they increase the market value. On the other hand, throwing in a dozen cheap bits of plastic with every vacuum cleaner pays for itself because it can now ostensibly do a dozen more things.

I wish there was like a rating system for how well-built appliances are. I guess the poor man's version of that is looking at how long the manufacturer's warranty is.

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#34

Post by timcederman »

cyphar wrote: post #31
timcederman wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Louis Rossman has an axe to grind, and from the recent iFixit teardowns, other manufacturers, particularly Microsoft, have been worse than Apple for repairability. But there are trade-offs... fixing my iPhone 5S back panel was a huge pain. But - I could do it! And it was cheap! And I get a device that's tiny, resilient, and generally a wonder. I've seen devices and repairs evolve from the 80s through to now, and I st…

Louis's axe grinding is not without justification. But I don't disagree that these days repairing your own devices is much easier than it was 50 years ago. My point was that companies are trying to counteract that by creating devices and instituting (possibly illegal in some countries) policies that are anti-consumer repair.

What's the justification? Yeah, I'd like more easily repairable devices, but I also get the trade-off. Why is he so angry about it all? (from what I can tell - because he knows how to fix stuff, rather than replace parts wholesale, and fundamentally believes this should be the norm, without taking into account the economics)

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#35

Post by icebraining »

muro wrote: post #18
tormeh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly the answer to the appliance problem is to just buy Miele. I'm not really a huge fan, because you do pay a lot for the brand and they're not always as technologically advanced as, for example, Siemens, but you do get a long warranty and high quality.

The apartment we rent has Miele appliances. Recently, a plastic screw widget broke in the range hood. I tried to repair it myself, as it looked simple to change, however was just out of reach and I couldn't figure out how to take the side off. It was CHF350 ($350) for the hour we had the technician over. Maybe they don't break often, but when they do...

That's my experience with them as well. We got three 10-year-old machines (clothes washer, drier and dishwasher), and they all lasted 10-15 years more with minimal problems, but when a problem did arise, just getting an official Miele rep to look at it was damn expensive, and the estimate to fix it was the cost of a new mid-range machine.

Luckily we found an non-affiliated technician who was much cheaper and got the part from an old machine for a small fraction of the cost.

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#36

Post by cyphar »

timcederman wrote: post #34
cyphar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Louis's axe grinding is not without justification. But I don't disagree that these days repairing your own devices is much easier than it was 50 years ago. My point was that companies are trying to counteract that by creating devices and instituting (possibly illegal in some countries) policies that are anti-consumer repair.

What's the justification? Yeah, I'd like more easily repairable devices, but I also get the trade-off. Why is he so angry about it all? (from what I can tell - because he knows how to fix stuff, rather than replace parts wholesale, and fundamentally believes this should be the norm, without taking into account the economics)

The longer rant is here[1]. In short, it's because Apple is unique in its hatred of third-party repair and they are trying to gain a monopoly over repair of their devices. This is not normal, it's actually very abnormal if you compare it to how repair industries normally work for electronic or mechanical components.

The problem is not that Louis (and the rest of the right-to-repair movement) want them to go out of their way to be accommodating. They want them to follow how the rest of the repair industry operates, and to stop going out of their way to make repairs more difficult. Louis has a very strong personality, but he does actually have a point.

Economics is an excuse, especially since we know the Apple explicitly has spent money on trying to thwart third-party repair shops. The automotive industry went through this song and dance in 2012 (before the 90s it was the norm). All they want is the ability to purchase legitimate chips from wherever Apple sources them and have access to the same schematics their technicians have access to. They're not asking Apple to become a wholesale supplier of repair parts.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14759763

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#37

Post by jaclaz »

cyphar wrote: post #16
timcederman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting to me is that for all my appliances in my house (different brands), I've been able to repair each of them (microwave, air conditioner, washer, dryer, dishwasher, and wine fridge) on my own, using some basic instructions on the internet and a part that at most has cost $50. I believe we're in a golden age for self-repair (particularly with YouTube videos), but I keep hearing about how everything is…

The problem is that companies (especially Apple) are explicitly trying to make their devices harder to repair -- which is the reason for the whole Right-to-Repair movement[1]. If you want to see how much dodgy stuff repair shops have to go through to figure out how to fix Apple products, check out the channels of Louis Rossman[2] and Jessa Jones[3]. [1]: http://ifixit.org/right [2]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC…

Apple aside, there is anyway an issue with a broken market for spares and repairs.

A single data point:

I recently went shopping for a replacement pump for a (professional) dishwasher, and while I was at it I was looking for a spare "programmer" (which is an electromechanic thingy, a motor with reduction gears and three cams that operate switches at a given timing).

I was given an estimate from the local repair shop for the repair between 500 and 600 Euros (the machine, new, can be bought for around 1300 - 1500 Euros), the actual machine being some 9 years old (though just fine, apart the pump sometimes not starting at first try) it plainly means "get a new dishwasher".

The pump (which is common enough, used in some 8 or 10 brands of dishwashers) is made in Italy, the actual factory is no more than 150 km away from where I live (but of course they don't sell directly).

The parts were quoted (another local spare parts shop) around 400 Euros.

I quickly found the same parts on e-bay and similar in England or in Germany for around 350 Euros (+ shipping) and finally found a dealer in Sardinia (which is a large island, a region off the coast of Italy) from which I got the parts (including shipping) for 290 Euro (this fact alone makes no sense whatsoever, we are talking of the stupid pump traveling for more than 800 km, partially across the sea going forward and back from Sardinia).

BTW I found the same pump in Spain, Polony and Romania at a much lower price but when you added the shipping it was more or less the same total.

We are not talking of an "aftermarket" or "compatible" spare, we are talking of exactly the same pump made by the exact same factory.

Then it took me around 1 hour time to replace the parts, and I am not a specialized dishwasher technician.

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#38

Post by PeterStuer »

The multi-vendor/best-of-bread system integrator has been for the most part replaced by exclusive partnerships. The platform owner's demand for 'loyalty' has grown significantly over the last decade.

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#39

Post by eterm »

richdougherty wrote: post #32

I did this when I was choosing a laptop. I called up a few laptop repair shops. It as so helpful! They could tell me what was junk and what was OK. I also do something like this this when choosing a new ISP. I call the support line instead of the sales line. Somehow ISPs can answer sales enquiries instantly while support calls take 45 minutes to answer. This strategy has led me to use some of the smaller (slightly mo…

My best customer support experience was calling an American ISP (I guess a small regional one but I have no good way to judge their size). I had been emailed billing details for a customer - the customer had presumably mistakenly entered my email address. I was expecting the usual 40 minutes on hold but it was answered promptly and politely by someone who understood the problem as I presented it.

This contrasts greatly with my experience calling any UK ISP.

The only other phone support I've experienced that has come close to that was (the now sadly defunct) Icesave, which I believe shared their phone support with Newcastle building society.

Re: Ask a Repair Shop

#40

Post by bensummers »

eterm wrote: post #39
richdougherty wrote: post #32

I did this when I was choosing a laptop. I called up a few laptop repair shops. It as so helpful! They could tell me what was junk and what was OK. I also do something like this this when choosing a new ISP. I call the support line instead of the sales line. Somehow ISPs can answer sales enquiries instantly while support calls take 45 minutes to answer. This strategy has led me to use some of the smaller (slightly mo…

My best customer support experience was calling an American ISP (I guess a small regional one but I have no good way to judge their size). I had been emailed billing details for a customer - the customer had presumably mistakenly entered my email address. I was expecting the usual 40 minutes on hold but it was answered promptly and politely by someone who understood the problem as I presented it. This contrasts great…

If you're not having luck with UK ISPs, try https://www.aaisp.net.uk/

They have technical people running support who talk to customers as peers. Also you can use IRC if you don't like the phone.

Post reply on HN