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Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

coindesk.com

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Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#31

Post by jchw »

chx wrote: post #19
aqme28 wrote: post #8

>Solis bought a Bitmain Antminer S9 on eBay for $2,400. >As of this weekend, Solis has mined 1.01 BTC, worth a little more than $2,584 in his bitcoin wallet. >Solis said: >"When I bought the miner, the price per bitcoin was around $1,200. I thought I’d break even in one year, but actually it’s been about five months." So he would have been much better off just spending that 1,200 on Bitcoin rather than on a mining ri…

This is hindsight. He would have been best off staying the fuck away . As I mentioned a billion times cryptocurrencies (which are not currencies either) have zero legal real world use cases, currently the two uses are illegal money transfers out of China and hype. It's the worst sort of gambling: you do not even know the odds.

>zero legal real world use cases

I pay my VPN using bitcoin. Also have a GPU bought with bitcoin. Just saying.

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#32

Post by astrodust »

paulpauper wrote: post #29
aqme28 wrote: post #8

>Solis bought a Bitmain Antminer S9 on eBay for $2,400. >As of this weekend, Solis has mined 1.01 BTC, worth a little more than $2,584 in his bitcoin wallet. >Solis said: >"When I bought the miner, the price per bitcoin was around $1,200. I thought I’d break even in one year, but actually it’s been about five months." So he would have been much better off just spending that 1,200 on Bitcoin rather than on a mining ri…

The major problem with buying mining rigs is that they may be pre-mined. Often the developers will use the rigs for mining and then when the rigs stop becoming profitable (assuming the bitcoin price is stable), sell them as 'new'.

You sure do get a lot of suspiciously dusty gear from some of these vendors.

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#33

Post by astrodust »

jchw wrote: post #31
chx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hindsight. He would have been best off staying the fuck away . As I mentioned a billion times cryptocurrencies (which are not currencies either) have zero legal real world use cases, currently the two uses are illegal money transfers out of China and hype. It's the worst sort of gambling: you do not even know the odds.

>zero legal real world use cases I pay my VPN using bitcoin. Also have a GPU bought with bitcoin. Just saying.

Yeah, and people have bought pizza, too: http://uk.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-pizza-day-passes-2000-...

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#34

Post by thaumaturgy »

For those thinking, "now's a great time to join the party!", the price surge happened from about March to about May of this year, with BTC more than doubling in USD price. However, it's been completely flat for over a month now -- longer than any other point in recent history -- and there are currently some big questions about the future of BTC that are being addressed next month and may result in a loss of value for some number of people, depending on how things shake out.

Smart money right now isn't in BTC, unless you think you can predict what's going to happen in the next six months and you're willing to keep it for a longer period. And, even then, you'd be better off selling it back to USD and re-buying when it likely falls back down to sub-$2000 in a month.

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#35

Post by saurik »

paulpauper wrote: post #29
aqme28 wrote: post #8

>Solis bought a Bitmain Antminer S9 on eBay for $2,400. >As of this weekend, Solis has mined 1.01 BTC, worth a little more than $2,584 in his bitcoin wallet. >Solis said: >"When I bought the miner, the price per bitcoin was around $1,200. I thought I’d break even in one year, but actually it’s been about five months." So he would have been much better off just spending that 1,200 on Bitcoin rather than on a mining ri…

The major problem with buying mining rigs is that they may be pre-mined. Often the developers will use the rigs for mining and then when the rigs stop becoming profitable (assuming the bitcoin price is stable), sell them as 'new'.

This analogy makes it sound like there were a certain number of Bitcoins inside the computer and they are all already discovered... why does it matter if a computer is used or not: all that should matter is how fast it is (and that would be difficult to lie about as you would notice immediately upon receiving it if it wasn't as fast a second claimed), and the buyer should know how fast of a computer they are willing to buy at a given price.

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#36

Post by flashdance »

bigtunacan wrote: post #18
danmaz74 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more importantly, electricity costs weren't accounted for, while they should be pretty relevant.

Is anyone tracking the electric costs for mining? I would love to see the stats on that. What about using something like solar to power this? Then you would have your upfront costs for the solar panels, but not have recurring electric costs?

I used to track where large bitcoin mines were.

Mostly they're concentrated around cheap hydroelectricity, with major mines in Labrador (2c/kwh), Central China (varies, but Solar panels are not effective for bitcoin mining, because hardware needs to run 24/7 (a shitload of batteries are needed) and the upfront cost is high.

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#37

Post by lightbyte »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #5

Yes, but the volatility of Bitcoin could make it not profitable again. Instead of buying a miner what if he took that money and bought bitcoin at that point of time. Wouldn't he have more money?

Yes, he'd have about doubled his money instead of breaking even.

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#38

Post by astrodust »

kartD wrote: post #27

I think this article is mistaken. People are mining Ethereum causing GPU prices to spike 2-3x. Eth is designed to use a lot of memory so GPU mining is always viable. GPU prices: https://camelcamelcamel.com/search?sq=geforce+1060 Mining centric cards are being released as well: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11607/cryptocurrency-mining-ca...

Using a lot of memory complicates any ASIC design but it doesn't eliminate the possibility of such a thing being made.

If someone really knows their hardware engineering they could interface with GDDR5 memory on a custom board and mine as fast or faster than a GPU.

It's just a matter of how much money it will take to develop such a chip. I'd guess at least $2-5 million given how you'd need to fabricate it at 14nm or better to get sufficient performance, and that process can be a serious headache for smaller firms.

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#39

Post by francisofascii »

bigtunacan wrote: post #18
danmaz74 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more importantly, electricity costs weren't accounted for, while they should be pretty relevant.

Is anyone tracking the electric costs for mining? I would love to see the stats on that. What about using something like solar to power this? Then you would have your upfront costs for the solar panels, but not have recurring electric costs?

It is very cost effective by those who don't pay for electricity directly. Plenty of older condo and apartment complexes do not meter individual customers. The electricity costs are a component of the condo fees. University housing is an example.

Re: Bitcoin's Price Surge Is Making Hobby Mining Profitable Again

#40

Post by Nursie »

Analemma_ wrote: post #17
danmaz74 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more importantly, electricity costs weren't accounted for, while they should be pretty relevant.

According to its Amazon listing, the Antminer S9 consumes 1247 watts at the wall. Assuming he ran it 24/7, over a year he would consume about 11,000 kWh, or about $1,300 at the average U.S. electricity price of $0.12/kWh. Without knowing how much he was paying for power of course we can't know exactly how much he spent, but this certainly doesn't seem like a slam-dunk win, compared to just buying Bitcoins outright. A…

Incidentally, 11K kWh is roughly the average energy consumption of a US household.

So given his current return, of 1.01 bitcoins, that means each 2.4 bitcoins mined use around the electricity that a US household does annually.

And people wonder why there are those of us who are concerned about the environmental impact...

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