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Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

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Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#31

Post by zamalek »

stcredzero wrote: post #21
sethbannon wrote: post #2

I look forward to the day a majority of people realize that our biology is, to a large extent, something to be overcome. Our "natural" biological impulses are often incredibly destructive, for both ourselves (e.g. sugar cravings) and for those around us (e.g. the impulses in this article).

Our "natural" biological impulses are often incredibly destructive Tribalism is easily the most destructive of our impulses, especially in the way in which it can interact with ideology. Through ideology, such tribal impulses can camouflage their own effects and short circuit the "better angels of our nature" to excuse the dehumanization end even the slaughter of the out group. I think that's the last great barrier t…

> some group will have ideologically convinced itself that it should do so for some incredibly noble reasons.

"Climate change is a natural process and we shouldn't interfere with it."

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#32

Post by omegaworks »

aracari wrote: post #5
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but it's profound to think our goal is to evolve to no longer be human. Perhaps machine intelligence will be the better version of ourselves; we're just the bootstrap code.

This is actually my theory of life -- humanity will eventually create a "perfect" version of ourselves, which with then exterminate us because we are inferior, and then the AI-human race will create a perfect society and branch off to explore the universe.

We have a long way to go. That perfect AI-run society will only be so superficially if it continues to propagate exclusion and marginalization.

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/how-to-call-bullshit-...

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#33

Post by stcredzero »

aracari wrote: post #5
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but it's profound to think our goal is to evolve to no longer be human. Perhaps machine intelligence will be the better version of ourselves; we're just the bootstrap code.

This is actually my theory of life -- humanity will eventually create a "perfect" version of ourselves, which with then exterminate us because we are inferior, and then the AI-human race will create a perfect society and branch off to explore the universe.

humanity will eventually create a "perfect" version of ourselves, which with then exterminate us because we are inferior

Human cultural evolution has already created self-proclaimed "perfect" cultures that went on to attempt exactly this. The Nazis were only the most recent notable example. There are many examples in history of groups who considered it their holy duty or moral duty to take over the world. Fortunately, for most of human history, this hasn't been feasible, but technology is changing this equation.

then the AI-human race will create a perfect society and branch off to explore the universe.

Physics tells us that the "speed of light" is actually the absolute speed of causality for mass-energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msVuCEs8Ydo

So until consciousness can inhabit a substrate independent of mass-energy and based on space itself, and thus not subject to the light speed limit, any intelligent civilization which expands is doomed to create its own rivals. In Michael Swannick's Vacuum Flowers the Earth is taken over by a hegemonic super-intelligence, but it's forever trapped there, because when attempting to expand, the light-speed lag will cause a sub-part of it to bud off and immediately attack its greatest rival -- which is always the rest of itself.

In any case, civilizations are clearly not stable on cosmic time scales. Who in their right mind would think that billions of interacting sentients with their own agendas would produce any stable organization? It's ridiculous on the face of it.

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#34

Post by Fricken »

drewrv wrote: post #26
sethbannon wrote: post #2

I look forward to the day a majority of people realize that our biology is, to a large extent, something to be overcome. Our "natural" biological impulses are often incredibly destructive, for both ourselves (e.g. sugar cravings) and for those around us (e.g. the impulses in this article).

I've been thinking of this as a sci-fi concept recently. On Star Trek all the other races have this singular defining trait, vulcans are logical, klingons are warriors, ferengi are greedy. The defining trait of humans is going against their natural impulses. We evolved from violent savage apes yet strive toward peace. Some choose veganism. Others choose celibacy.

Wasn't Captain Kirk the one always going with his gut instinct? The Vulcans were once an extremely emotional and violent race. Their logical traits are the result of generations of disciplined mastery over their natural impulses.

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#35

Post by chongli »

jacquesm wrote: post #14
Aron wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people spend a great deal of time fighting their impulses in order to behave in a proper socialized manner: go to work, be nice, clean up, call your mom, don't procrastinate, etc.

The really frustrating part is that people that do not behave in a 'proper' way often seem to get way ahead in life. No such thing as a just world.

The stages of development:

1. Understand anything

2. Understand the rules

3. Follow the rules

4. Break some of the rules

5. Make new rules

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#36

Post by jrs95 »

stcredzero wrote: post #21
sethbannon wrote: post #2

I look forward to the day a majority of people realize that our biology is, to a large extent, something to be overcome. Our "natural" biological impulses are often incredibly destructive, for both ourselves (e.g. sugar cravings) and for those around us (e.g. the impulses in this article).

Our "natural" biological impulses are often incredibly destructive Tribalism is easily the most destructive of our impulses, especially in the way in which it can interact with ideology. Through ideology, such tribal impulses can camouflage their own effects and short circuit the "better angels of our nature" to excuse the dehumanization end even the slaughter of the out group. I think that's the last great barrier t…

>If humankind ever destroys itself, in all likelihood, some group will have ideologically convinced itself that it should do so for some incredibly noble reasons.

You mean like the people commenting here advocating replacing us with AI?

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#37

Post by sidlls »

dgut wrote: post #25
jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really frustrating part is that people that do not behave in a 'proper' way often seem to get way ahead in life. No such thing as a just world.

Do they? Care to elaborate?

Here's an article with links to other resources indicating that sociopathic/psycopathic behavior has a higher prevalence in people who we generally consider "successful" or to have "got ahead" (e.g. CEOs): http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/18/why-psychopaths-are-so-good-a...

Note: I'm not claiming the article is "proof" of the contention, just that it indicates support for the parent's assertion. Other items may counter the assertion, of course.

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#38

Post by avaer »

sethbannon wrote: post #2

I look forward to the day a majority of people realize that our biology is, to a large extent, something to be overcome. Our "natural" biological impulses are often incredibly destructive, for both ourselves (e.g. sugar cravings) and for those around us (e.g. the impulses in this article).

I prefer to think of it as: one person's destructive biological impulse is another person's effective business idea.

If you recognize it you can vaccinate yourself.

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#39

Post by rfrank »

Aron wrote: post #27
rfrank wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange_(novel)

I'm not clever enough to relate these to each other.

The broader conversation about the desirability of separating ourselves from our humanity is what made me think of the novel, because it's ultimately about the importance of choice (especially the UK version with the final chapter included).

> In the final chapter, Alex finds himself halfheartedly preparing for yet another night of crime with a new gang (Lenn, Rick, Bully). After a chance encounter with Pete, who has reformed and married, Alex finds himself taking less and less pleasure in acts of senseless violence. He begins contemplating giving up crime himself to become a productive member of society and start a family of his own, while reflecting on the notion that his own children will be just as destructive as he has been, if not more so.

Broadly speaking, the whole sentiment makes me uneasy, especially given how powerful a tool the internet can be for consensus building.

Re: Evolution of Sexual Intimidation: Male Baboons Beat Up Females, Increases Mating

#40

Post by bitsandbeaches »

lqdc13 wrote: post #30
bitsandbeaches wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's profound to think our goal is to evolve to no longer be human. What makes us human? We know from experience that children are often cruel towards other animals, even other children,and get drunk on power too easily. So this kind of aggression is something innate, right? But we have learned from experience that it's not good for us as a society, so we train them( at least in most cultures) to be kind and co…

Now what is more human then - human body or that of an android? Of course android body. It doesn't matter that it is not innate because we weren't born with it. What matters is that we have consciously chosen to build it and replace our body. If you keep going with the theme of 'the changes we come up with are more human than what is innate', where does it end?

Certainly an android is more human - humans and only humans create those machines and make them a part of us. We could ask, was mowgli more human than all of the suited gentlemen in New York? Of course not. Mowgli was lesser human than them.

Where does it end? Who knows? At this point, Isaac Asimov's The Last Question comes to my mind.

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