Untitled topic

You fall back on this notion that because genocide has not succeeded, there are therefore not voices pushing to target and marginalize large numbers of people. By your logic I should be able to say that because jihadists have not overthrown America there are therefore no terrorists with harmful plots.

The op mentioned the western voices that call for mass killing (via various mechanisms) of muslims and other perceived enemies -- those voices exist and their prevalence and political power definitely moves the goal post with regard to notions of acceptable collateral loss in pursuit of the perceived objectives of the counterterrorism movement. The western fundamentalist notion of the "Muslim holy enemy" bleeds into policy decisions that absolutely affect far more people who have nothing to do with terrorism than they do terrorism. The mistaken idea of holy war is the reasoning flaw that causes insane numbers of metric tons of bombs to be dropped on real life humans - everytime reproposing the assumption that _this time_ they are targeting the holy enemy.

Countries ravaged by war for decades yield innumerable stories of savagery -- not necessarily related to terrorism at all but easily confused into becoming part of the holy enemy story by opportunist politicians -- and thusly the expansion of the targeting mechanism grows and grows.

You want to pretend that you can trace the motivations, details, circumstances of all the western killings case by case -- and from this perspective of true information, inform a model that supports the morality of the objective of counterterrorism and its associated callous killing process which has been going on for decades. You can't -- you do not have those details. What we have are the we are the aggregate results of this movements pursuit of its objectives -- these soldiers have been killing for decades -- sometimes killing innocents by mistake, sometimes killing innocents with a deliberate calculus that does not value the lives of those innocents as they kill them. The sustained killing in this context is simply a decision -- the west keeps doing it knowing the outcome with a misguided belief about what their objectives are and how they can achieve them.

It's a kind of western blood lust that keeps this going. Counter-terrorism is a giant wheel rolling down hill with an evil momentum that creates the enemies with which to satisfy its own insanity.

The goal post of what constitues "mass killing" has moved since 1945. Maybe we can at least agree that not slipping that post backwards is a good thing?

I don't keep a catalogue of these kinds of tweets/media reports etc -- going back for 20 seconds to find examples I come across new types of media/messaging in similar vein (not vetted)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslims-are...

And how about the #killallmuslims hashtag -- search it and follow along with some of the verified accounts/accounts that seem to be legitimate humans.

Nowhere did I try to claim that this was majority view, but similar voices have a lot of influence now. The public dialogue around terrorism and Islam which has been in a sad and misguided state for decades, has diverged even further from reality in terms of what issues are important, what/who is dangerous and to whom, and why. We have real policy and public discourse aimed at satisfying people who believed that Barack Obama was a Muslim that wanted to impose Sharia law on the West. Search for Islam on Breitbart and you will quickly find innumerable topics discussing the holy war nature of the Wests conflict with Islam.

You are trying to "leave up to readers" a decision about what exactly?

My position: counterterrorism movement is off the rails, dangerously unfocused, subject to evil political games, causing massive harm to the world and in fact more harmful than the amorphous "terrorist" movements it claims to oppose.

Your claim: counterterrorism movement makes mistakes but is restrained compared to the firebombing of Dresden in WW2, long term western wars fueled by counterterrorism movement haven't necessarily accomplished many useful goals but are not immoral because the long term intent remains moral despite the actual numbers and dispositions of people killed

> Just stop trying to tar my people or my religion with another genocide.

HN does not exist for this kind of flamewar. Please don't post like this here, even when someone else is deeply wrong.

I'm going to kill this thread outright because it's so emblematic of what has no place on this site.