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Tesla Autopilot

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Re: Tesla Autopilot

#31

Post by georgemcbay »

quotemstr wrote: post #17
adanto6840 wrote: post #11

This is quite interesting, I hadn't seen or heard about their intention to restrict like this, prior reading it tonight: "Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

I don't think our legal system should allow car manufacturers to impose these kinds of restrictions on cars fully owned by their operators. If I have the title on my vehicle, I should be able to use it in any legal capacity. This restriction is an attack on the fundamental ideas of ownership and property.

Well it isn't currently clear that they do. Tesla can write whatever they want into the car version of a EULA, but it doesn't mean there is legal merit to any of it.

Assuming Tesla eventually "catches" someone using a Tesla for ride sharing profit outside of their network they could remotely disable the car, at which point they will surely be sued and the courts will decide.

And they will very likely decide against Tesla, IMO. The immediate reaction to this statement is bound to cause people who work purely in the software realm to protest, but to most courts software is still a very nebulous thing. Disabling someone's car (after selling it to them outright) because they did something with it that you didn't like is EASY to understand, anathema to the entire history of car ownership and I really don't think it'll fly.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#32

Post by PinguTS »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #29
PinguTS wrote: post #14

"All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." That claim is strong and false. What about Roadster and the old Model S with the old AP1 hardware?

"All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory" is present perfect tense, implying an event that happened at an unspecified time in the past and continues to the present. You would have to add "ever" to include all vehicles ever produced.

So then, what about the Model S with AP1? It was produced just last year.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#33

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

throwaway-1209 wrote: post #21
mattybrennan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the necessary hardware? Do Teslas have lidar?

Lidar is not "necessary" hardware. Humans drive just fine without lidar.

Humans have the computation equivalent of 38 petaflops of processing power. Does a Tesla vehicle?

If you seriously want to play the inane game of "well if a human doesn't have it then a Tesla doesn't need it" then let's play that game and talk about the things humans have that the Tesla lacks.

What's interesting about human's vision system is that the human eyeball is, relatively speaking, poor. We have digital cameras far better than that already. It is what the human brain that does with that raw data which makes us, as a species, thrive. Most of what we believe we "see" we never actually see, our brain fills in the gaps dynamically and infers information over time.

So this human processing ability, much of it automated rather than conscious, is totally relevant if you want to have this "Tesla Vs. human" debate. It is also why Lidar might be needed to make up the massive shortfall in a Tesla's processing ability relative to the human brain.

But hey, you want to keep to the "but HUMANS don't need it" then I ask where is my 38 petaflops and 1 TB of memory...

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#34

Post by lowglow »

adanto6840 wrote: post #11

This is quite interesting, I hadn't seen or heard about their intention to restrict like this, prior reading it tonight: "Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

This seems like if you support Tesla, I guess you support monopolistic efforts.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#35

Post by EngineerBetter »

This is not news. Current Tesla vehicles with Autopilot 2 hardware can do nowhere near this aspirational list. My AP2 Model X cannot even tell when to turn the windscreen wipers on.

This is a statement of intent, and production vehicles are a long way from having software that enables this.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#37

Post by smitherfield »

castratikron wrote: post #27
quotemstr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think our legal system should allow car manufacturers to impose these kinds of restrictions on cars fully owned by their operators. If I have the title on my vehicle, I should be able to use it in any legal capacity. This restriction is an attack on the fundamental ideas of ownership and property.

How is this any different than Microsoft restricting Home versions of Office for non-business use? They've been getting away with that for decades now.

Well, for one, a car is a physical object; you can't near-instantaneously create an arbitrary number of exact duplicates of your car.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#38

Post by raldi »

quotemstr wrote: post #17
adanto6840 wrote: post #11

This is quite interesting, I hadn't seen or heard about their intention to restrict like this, prior reading it tonight: "Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

I don't think our legal system should allow car manufacturers to impose these kinds of restrictions on cars fully owned by their operators. If I have the title on my vehicle, I should be able to use it in any legal capacity. This restriction is an attack on the fundamental ideas of ownership and property.

It does seem a bit like having to pay extra for pencils if they're being used for commercial purposes.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#39

Post by mcbutterbunz »

madengr wrote: post #36

Will I get a DUI if I'm drunk and my car drives me home? Say I'm in the back seat.

I would guess that if you gave the command to drive home, you would be seen as the operator of the vehicle and would probably receive a DUI. If there is an emergency and the automobile needs human intervention, then you would be responsible.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#40

Post by Alex3917 »

madengr wrote: post #36

Will I get a DUI if I'm drunk and my car drives me home? Say I'm in the back seat.

Yes. You can get a DUI if you're in a car that's either turned on or has the keys in the ignition, even if it's parked.
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