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C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

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Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#31

There is certainly a xenophobic strain in the Chronicles of Narnia, most evident in what is otherwise my favorite book in the series, "The horse and his boy." I can only think that to Lewis's ear, the word "Turkish" had a certain brutality to it that contrasted well with "delight" and paired well with Edmund's perdition.

You're really shoving a square peg into a round hole there. It was an exotic and expensive treat.

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#32

Back when I read the Narnia books at the age of 11 and 12, I remember reading of lands and people other than Narnia as being portrayed negatively. Back then I did not know, who the lands were being referred to, but the more I started reading into other cultures, the more I found a strong resonance with the cultures of Iran and Turkey. Turkish delight was served by the evil witch and it turned Edmund unto a spell. In…

I don't really see how Narnia was Lewis's attempt at turning thinking against the Middle East.

There is as much evil to be found within Narnia as there is to be found outside of it, over the entire series. There are quite a few evil Narnians, as there are also good Calormenes, such as Aravis in the Horse and His Boy, or Emmeth in The Last Battle.

I don't think that Lewis wouldn't argue that Turkish Delight itself is evil, but rather that evil can clothe itself in beauty (and I think he made that very point in some of his other writings).

Calormen is more used as "other", than merely "evil". It has both evil characters and good ones, and morally complex characters (like the Tisroc). As a nationality it's aims run counter to Narnian ones at times. But seeing as how it only really features in 2 out of the 7 books, I don't think C.S. Lewis was trying to use it's depiction to turn people against Middle Eastern culture. I think the worst that could be said is that Lewis was reflecting certain cultural sensibilities of his day.

EDIT:

That being said, if the prose is worth it, then one might take the book as an opportunity to talk about what those cultural sensibilities were, if one is recommending it to someone. Reading books that fall outside one's purview is not a bad thing, IMO.

Further edit:

A much stronger (though a bit longer) case is made at http://www.narniaweb.com/resources-links/are-the-chronicles-...

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#33

Back when I read the Narnia books at the age of 11 and 12, I remember reading of lands and people other than Narnia as being portrayed negatively. Back then I did not know, who the lands were being referred to, but the more I started reading into other cultures, the more I found a strong resonance with the cultures of Iran and Turkey. Turkish delight was served by the evil witch and it turned Edmund unto a spell. In…

There was some kind of cruel god among the desert people in one of the books too - like a bird-of-prey version of Aslan

Tash. (And of course there's a wiki for that.)

http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Tash

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#35

Back when I read the Narnia books at the age of 11 and 12, I remember reading of lands and people other than Narnia as being portrayed negatively. Back then I did not know, who the lands were being referred to, but the more I started reading into other cultures, the more I found a strong resonance with the cultures of Iran and Turkey. Turkish delight was served by the evil witch and it turned Edmund unto a spell. In…

You're currently being downvoted and I'm not sure why. However, I don't think you're quite right about Lewis' motives so that may be part of it. Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, not against a particular culture. I'd assume that the negative portrayal arose out of the conventional thinking of his time far more than anything more sinist…

> Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity,

That's not really a hidden agenda, and the books are more than somewhat allegorical.

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#36

Uh, dude, this was written in the context of rationing and austerity. A kid whose had his sugar rationed is going to consider Turkish delight in a totally different way than a kid in 2017

You didn't read the article, did you?

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#37

Proper Turkish delight is never coated with icing sugar, but always starch. I don't know where the author had it either, but it is nowhere near being "very, very sweet." Hell, I can't even imagine what an American may consider as being too sweet! Source: Born and raised in Turkey.

The stuff you get in the UK is disgusting, it's a sugary jelly with a very strong artificial rose flavour. Sticky sweet goo. I've had the proper stuff in Turkey and it's not sweet, it's not sticky or gooey. The flavour, at least of the stuff I had, was subtle.

Seeing the photo the author chose... If that's what he had, that's really not what lokum is.

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#38
When I was young, my parents described Turkish Delight as being basically Applets & Cotlets, and that sounds like an accurate description based on this article. Substitute rosewater for apple/apricot/whatever juice and you've got Turkish Delight. Am I missing something? At least in the northwestern US, Applets & Cotlets have been a thing for decades.

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#39
post #2

I liked the Robot Chicken sketch on this where the nerd thinks Turkish Delight is some kind of sex act. Caution: NSFW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrplL8orvac

It's also a movie by Paul Verhoeven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film)

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're currently being downvoted and I'm not sure why. However, I don't think you're quite right about Lewis' motives so that may be part of it. Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, not against a particular culture. I'd assume that the negative portrayal arose out of the conventional thinking of his time far more than anything more sinist…

> Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, That's not really a hidden agenda, and the books are more than somewhat allegorical.

Well, hidden to the child I used to be. But you're right of course.
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