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The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

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Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#31

Post by throwanem »

empath75 wrote: post #29
throwanem wrote: post #18

Those this way interested might also find rewarding the Illuminatus! trilogy by Shea and Wilson; it pretends no special mystical insight, has served as the foundational myth of approximately zero cults (fewer than Heinlein!), and includes at least one dolphin. Does Castaneda have dolphins? Well, I haven't read him myself, but the closest thing the Internet knows about is a College of Staten Island Dolphin Athletics -…

I think our current political culture would be immeasurably improved by everyone reading Illuminatus! and Foucault's Pendulum.

I think that on worldlines where it's even marginally probable that a significant fraction of the population has read either of these books, political cultures such as our own are vastly unlikely to exist in the first place. But no doubt they have their own problems, too.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#32

Post by jevgeni »

throwanem wrote: post #18

Those this way interested might also find rewarding the Illuminatus! trilogy by Shea and Wilson; it pretends no special mystical insight, has served as the foundational myth of approximately zero cults (fewer than Heinlein!), and includes at least one dolphin. Does Castaneda have dolphins? Well, I haven't read him myself, but the closest thing the Internet knows about is a College of Staten Island Dolphin Athletics -…

Oh, man! Illuminatus! trilogy is brilliant. <3

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#33

Post by jevgeni »

dagw wrote: post #22

I read most of Castaneda's books as a teenager (early 90's) and loved them. However this is honestly the first time I've heard of anybody considering them anything other than allegorical fiction, modern mythology and philosophy. The idea that they where supposed to be read as non-fiction had honestly never crossed my mind

I read Castaneda in school, where I heard about the books from a buddy of mine. I really liked the aesthetics of the universe in the books, which I always saw as fictional. My buddy though took the books at face value... He was also into dianetics for a bit, so there's that... :/

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#34

Post by jerry40 »

At least his lucid dreams techniques are not that difficult to reproduce. I stopped them many years ago after I had strange experience of waking up for several times in a row. I woke up, went to a next room and, all of a sudden, I realised that it was still a dream. After short panic I woked up again only to repeat the story. And so on, actually I'm not sure if I've really woked up that day or I'm still in that dream and once I'll discover myself opening eyes there again.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#35

Post by wu-ikkyu »

dfraser992 wrote: post #9

Was it Josephus who called Christians "literal minded fools" for believing in the literal truth of the same foundational myth of so many other religions at that time? To take a myth literally does it disservice; there is value in the basic myth of a dead, dying, and reborn god. If you don't think so, then you are incapable of understanding and appreciating "American Gods" properly as well as any other aspect of relig…

>A friend of mine who has Native American ancestry was livid when I gave her the first book to read - there were things in there "not for the white man to know".

Could you give an example or two of such things?

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#36

Post by dfraser992 »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #35
dfraser992 wrote: post #9

Was it Josephus who called Christians "literal minded fools" for believing in the literal truth of the same foundational myth of so many other religions at that time? To take a myth literally does it disservice; there is value in the basic myth of a dead, dying, and reborn god. If you don't think so, then you are incapable of understanding and appreciating "American Gods" properly as well as any other aspect of relig…

>A friend of mine who has Native American ancestry was livid when I gave her the first book to read - there were things in there "not for the white man to know". Could you give an example or two of such things?

She did not go into detail, was a bit upset, and I was driving at the time... I would guess there were allusions to rituals and the like; it has been two decades since I read the first book so I'd have to again before making an attempt to answer your question. The important thing is to understand the allegorical nature of the story and what psychological insights about life one might get from it, as another commentator pointed out. "White people" (the stereotype) don't have a clue about such things, hence my wisecrack.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#37

Post by poke53281 »

throwanem wrote: post #28
jacquesm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fewer than Heinlein! L Ron Hubbard?

Everybody knows Hubbard started a cult. But I'm talking about the "Church of All Worlds", which found its foundation myth in one of Heinlein's rather less good novels that was nonetheless all the rage for a while in the sixties - while it's no longer easily to hand, I have seen a photo of a couple of hippies at Woodstock, one holding a copy of the novel and expounding to the other. (Possibly expounding; they may just…

(Ex-CAW member here; have been out of it for more than a decade. Posting anonymously for professional reasons, but I used to be personally well-acquainted with both the founders of Church of All Worlds and Robert Anton Wilson.)

Church of all world still nominally exists, and has been through several incarnations during the 60s. Although its foundational premise was indeed deeply silly, it was self-consciously so: an act of intentional myth-making. It encouraged its members to explore other spiritual paths as well as to create their own; and there were many CAW members who were committed Buddhists, Jews, atheists, etc.; a large majority counted themselves as Discordians. The only principles held as official dogmas were things like "Nature is Good", and "Be Excellent to Each Other" (because why the fuck shouldn't Bill & Ted be part of your mythos?). So it was all in rather good fun.

This is not to say that the organization didn't have its problems. Chiefly, it was frequently subject to nasty internal politicking -- personality-driven power-plays of the sort that are unfortunately quite common in idealistically non-hierarchical organizations. But when measured against typical metrics for cults, eg[1], it fails on every single count.

Anyhow, just a gentle reminder that not every new religious movement is a cult (in the conventional modern pejorative sense of the word).

[edit: fixed link.]

1: http://www.icsahome.com/articles/characteristics

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#38

Post by delegate »

jerry40 wrote: post #34

At least his lucid dreams techniques are not that difficult to reproduce. I stopped them many years ago after I had strange experience of waking up for several times in a row. I woke up, went to a next room and, all of a sudden, I realised that it was still a dream. After short panic I woked up again only to repeat the story. And so on, actually I'm not sure if I've really woked up that day or I'm still in that dream…

For some reason, I've always suspected that this life might all be a dream and one day I will wake up as a 7-year old boy just starting school.

And I always wonder - if that happens - what should I do ? (provided that all the 'truths' I've learned while dreaming are still true)..

Should I buy Apple stock ? Should I write a search engine ? How would I convince my parents to buy me a new PC ? How should I talk to my teachers, now that I know all there is to know about math and geography and history ? Should I meet the girls that I loved ?

Things get complicated fast if you go on that path, so I hope this life is not a dream from which I'll wake up and have to live it all over again.

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#39

Post by kretash »

oldmancoyote wrote: post #6

I took Castaneda's experiences as reflecting his impressions of reality under the influence of both a powerful personality (Don Juan) and drugs not as a description of scientific reality itself. His books offered considerable philosophical truth as well an understanding of how others might experience reality. I consider them worth reading.

I'm considering picking one up. Which one would you recommend out of all of them?

Re: The dark legacy of Carlos Castaneda (2007)

#40

Post by [deleted] »

blackSnake wrote: post #17

I first heard of Castaneda 7 years ago when I was at university. I started with the first book "The Teachings of Don Juan" and proceeded with reading all his other works. I was fascinated not only with the story he was telling but more so, the practical wisdom he revealed. One of the techniques he revealed in his books for expanding your awareness as a human being was to consciously diffuse your gaze for long stretch…

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