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‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

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Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#31

Post by cirgue »

krapp wrote: post #15

I'm sick of people deciding that the problem with the internet is other people. The internet isn't "broken." The internet is the only mass communication and media paradigm which doesn't have to present a facade for the sake of commercial interests, but an honest, unfiltered glimpse at the zeitgeist. It's a mirror, an honest mirror. If we don't like what we see, it's because we had a naive understanding of what we are…

The internet removes individual accountability for your beliefs and ideas, and very much influences the zeitgeist. It's not an honest mirror but a funhouse mirror, because it exacerbates not only genuinely held extreme views, but also the appearance that others hold extreme views.

Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#32

Post by disantlor »

weberc2 wrote: post #17
krapp wrote: post #15

I'm sick of people deciding that the problem with the internet is other people. The internet isn't "broken." The internet is the only mass communication and media paradigm which doesn't have to present a facade for the sake of commercial interests, but an honest, unfiltered glimpse at the zeitgeist. It's a mirror, an honest mirror. If we don't like what we see, it's because we had a naive understanding of what we are…

I agree. In particular, the NYT and other large media organizations seem to talk as though the internet became abruptly disharmonious during the election. It wouldn't be an NYT article of it didn't have "Trump supporters are evil" undertones. Our country isn't going to get better if we are constantly demonizing those with whom we disagree.

what's an example of a trump supporters are evil? keep in mind that demonstrating that someone is uninformed, perhaps willfully, is not the same as evil.

Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#33

Post by hutzlibu »

hk__2 wrote: post #23
BlackMonday wrote: post #16

More like society is broken.

…said someone somewhere pretty much every second since 3000 years.

... even though there are indeed many broken society's all the time. Just like there are many working ones. And alltogether it is somewhat mixed.

Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#35

Post by gavinpc »

ethbro wrote: post #28
krapp wrote: post #15

I'm sick of people deciding that the problem with the internet is other people. The internet isn't "broken." The internet is the only mass communication and media paradigm which doesn't have to present a facade for the sake of commercial interests, but an honest, unfiltered glimpse at the zeitgeist. It's a mirror, an honest mirror. If we don't like what we see, it's because we had a naive understanding of what we are…

> It's a mirror, an honest mirror. While I partially agree with you, I think there's a tendency of those (us) who work in a deterministic universe to under-attribute technology's ability to shade or shift pre-existing things. In the same way that propagation models matter in neural networks, the nuances of how the internet is consumed, shared, cross-linked, and presented all influence the zeitgeist that it creates. I…

Thank you, this comment is uplifting and thought-provoking.

Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#36

Post by redditmigrant »

chongli wrote: post #4

Unbearable read. Overflowing with intellectual elitism. Completely out of touch with reality. If this is PR [0], Evan Williams should demand a refund. I don't know, maybe this crap appeals to yuppies living in the coastal big cities? Tools like Twitter and Facebook have done more to connect more people of all income and education levels than anything else. Medium is not going to reach these people, who don't read the…

I don't think Twitter and facebook have allowed people to communicate across social/educational/economical boundaries. Yes you do get an odd an interaction here and there, but by and large both these platforms have become giant echo chambers where you only hear echoes of voices and opinions like your own.

Honest question, do you think an average internet user, interacts with and actually enagages in an intellectually honest way with people outside their own educational/social strata on any sort of regular basis?

Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#37

Post by redditmigrant »

ungzd wrote: post #30

Seems that fixing Internet with Medium already clearly failed. It's the blog service with the least "diversity" ever, Medium is used mostly by people like its creator: narcissistic developers from Silicon Valley. Even its post creation UI and page look is designed for this audience and causes disgust for others, even for hipsters. And I can't remember any interesting post on Medium, only graphomania about newest js t…

You fail to mention how medium's UI discourages non-"narcissistic Silicon Valley" developer from creating posts? As far as I can see they have tried to remove cruft so you can just focus on the writing. What about that is alienating?

Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#38

Post by mirimir »

ethbro wrote: post #28
krapp wrote: post #15

I'm sick of people deciding that the problem with the internet is other people. The internet isn't "broken." The internet is the only mass communication and media paradigm which doesn't have to present a facade for the sake of commercial interests, but an honest, unfiltered glimpse at the zeitgeist. It's a mirror, an honest mirror. If we don't like what we see, it's because we had a naive understanding of what we are…

> It's a mirror, an honest mirror. While I partially agree with you, I think there's a tendency of those (us) who work in a deterministic universe to under-attribute technology's ability to shade or shift pre-existing things. In the same way that propagation models matter in neural networks, the nuances of how the internet is consumed, shared, cross-linked, and presented all influence the zeitgeist that it creates. I…

> If HN had no moderation or anti-spamming code, our comment threads would look very different. ...

No argument there.

> So an algorithm shifts our HN world, despite the fact that we remain the same people. (At least over the short term)

Yes, over the short term. But longer term, HN's policies shape its user base. They select for people who prefer them, and against people who reject them.

So anyway, I do believe that the Internet is an honest mirror. But I wouldn't want the sort of moderation that some countries impose or plan. Maybe people will eventually learn to use it responsibly. I'm not optimistic, however. It's just ongoing Eternal September.

Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#39

Post by workerIbe »

redditmigrant wrote: post #36
chongli wrote: post #4

Unbearable read. Overflowing with intellectual elitism. Completely out of touch with reality. If this is PR [0], Evan Williams should demand a refund. I don't know, maybe this crap appeals to yuppies living in the coastal big cities? Tools like Twitter and Facebook have done more to connect more people of all income and education levels than anything else. Medium is not going to reach these people, who don't read the…

I don't think Twitter and facebook have allowed people to communicate across social/educational/economical boundaries. Yes you do get an odd an interaction here and there, but by and large both these platforms have become giant echo chambers where you only hear echoes of voices and opinions like your own. Honest question, do you think an average internet user, interacts with and actually enagages in an intellectually…

Many interest type forums have off topic/political sections that are deeply polarized. At times this can bleed into other sections but for the most part everyone gets along on topics of the interest.

Re: ‘The Internet Is Broken’: Ev Williams Is Trying to Salvage It

#40

Post by chongli »

redditmigrant wrote: post #36
chongli wrote: post #4

Unbearable read. Overflowing with intellectual elitism. Completely out of touch with reality. If this is PR [0], Evan Williams should demand a refund. I don't know, maybe this crap appeals to yuppies living in the coastal big cities? Tools like Twitter and Facebook have done more to connect more people of all income and education levels than anything else. Medium is not going to reach these people, who don't read the…

I don't think Twitter and facebook have allowed people to communicate across social/educational/economical boundaries. Yes you do get an odd an interaction here and there, but by and large both these platforms have become giant echo chambers where you only hear echoes of voices and opinions like your own. Honest question, do you think an average internet user, interacts with and actually enagages in an intellectually…

You can lump YouTube in there with the echo chamber accusations. At the borders of these networks there is a huge amount of debate going on. It's moving forward. People do get bored of the echo chamber though. It just takes a really long time because people let their identity get caught up in it (identity politics).

To answer your question: yes. I think this goes on far more often than it ever did before the internet and these social networks came into being. A lot of it is invisible though, because online​ identities don't carry that info around.

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