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Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

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Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#31

Post by accountyaccount »

brianwawok wrote: post #30
rch wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true that they've made raw aptitude less of a factor in SAT scores? If so then there's a systemic problem with our training and credentialing process.

Or we need to realize not everyone can be a doctor or engineer. The world needs ditch diggers still. Ditch diggers don't really need college.

Ditch diggers is a go-to insult, but skilled tradespeople are still incredibly valuable. As an apprentice a plumber makes next to nothing, but once you get your time in you can make a ton of money if you have basic business/time management skills.

Everybody poops.

The same goes for carpenters, masonry, etc. The physical work will wear you down — but by the time that becomes a problem you should be skilled enough to be a manager.

I'm making decent money now, but it's crazy how much trade work was frowned upon when I graduated high school. In retrospect I think I'd be totally happy with being a contractor managing a small business.

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#32

Post by faet »

josephjrobison wrote: post #15

Is it just me or does it seem like $40k has been the default for far too long. I believe (anecdotally) that it's been the average white-collar entry-level salary since the late 90s/early 2000's. Seems that the number isn't adjusted for inflation and should be closer to $45 or $50k in 2017+

You also need to include other benefits as well. Benefits as a percent of total compensation have increased heavily over the past 20-30 years. Now they make up ~30% of an employees total compensation.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#33

Post by Digory »

Animats wrote: post #20
EternalData wrote: post #13

I feel like an apt title for a book about late-stage capitalism would be "A Society of Salespeople". With that said, I'm not exactly sure what type of career path somebody studying, say, political science could embark on -- it seems to me that there's a lot more demand for accreditation in certain fields than there is demand for actual practitioners.

Napoleon once referred to England as an "island of shopkeepers". Computers are getting better at sales. Amazon doesn't have salespeople. Retailers barely have salespeople any more. Outside of real estate, cars, and financial products, what B2C companies do?

Amazon most certainly has selling Associates. But like much of the gig economy, they try to avoid employees.

[0](https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/)

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#34

Post by faet »

Frondo wrote: post #25
josephjrobison wrote: post #15

Is it just me or does it seem like $40k has been the default for far too long. I believe (anecdotally) that it's been the average white-collar entry-level salary since the late 90s/early 2000's. Seems that the number isn't adjusted for inflation and should be closer to $45 or $50k in 2017+

Wages have been stagnant since the 1980s: http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/ Lots more to read here: https://www.google.com/#q=wages+flat+since+1980

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB

Total compensation per hour has increased 44% since the 80s.

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#35

Post by tnecniv »

EternalData wrote: post #13

I feel like an apt title for a book about late-stage capitalism would be "A Society of Salespeople". With that said, I'm not exactly sure what type of career path somebody studying, say, political science could embark on -- it seems to me that there's a lot more demand for accreditation in certain fields than there is demand for actual practitioners.

> With that said, I'm not exactly sure what type of career path somebody studying, say, political science could embark on

I'm not so sure it matters. Even in engineering, college courses alone won't provide you with a worthwhile resume. In college, you have plenty of chances to build a CV worth hiring. You can do research, work on meaningful projects outside of class, get internships, etc. no matter what you want to study. All the people I knew who got jobs out of undergrad did some combination of the above regardless of their major. The important part was that they could point to concrete things that demonstrated their skills.

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#36

Post by woopwoop »

simonsarris wrote: post #9

I'm not sure we should expect anything differently, if recent graduates are less intelligent (as a cohort) than ever. [Difficult degree] enrollment is relatively flat because aptitude is flat, and grad jobs will reflect this. I wrote a little about this framing it as a CS degree problem, but it seems true for a lot more than just CS. > Can we prove aptitude is flat? Kinda. In 1970s 1-in-2 college grads aced Wordsum t…

Wait, that's an amazing claim. 100 is the median IQ for the entire population. So the claim is that the median college graduate has the same IQ as the median person. How could that possibly be true?

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#37

Post by atom-morgan »

fnbr wrote: post #3

It's crazy how accurate that is. I'm lucky enough to be working as a data scientist, but almost all of my friends are either working in sales or in grad school.

That's how I feel as a dev at startups. Most people in the company are my age but only a few are making my salary. The rest are in sales or support.

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#38

Post by karmicthreat »

accountyaccount wrote: post #31
brianwawok wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we need to realize not everyone can be a doctor or engineer. The world needs ditch diggers still. Ditch diggers don't really need college.

Ditch diggers is a go-to insult, but skilled tradespeople are still incredibly valuable. As an apprentice a plumber makes next to nothing, but once you get your time in you can make a ton of money if you have basic business/time management skills. Everybody poops. The same goes for carpenters, masonry, etc. The physical work will wear you down — but by the time that becomes a problem you should be skilled enough to b…

The apprenticeship and guild systems that states use to regulate them are awful though. Time in is not a great measure of skill and that seems to be a central feature of these systems.

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#39

Post by sporkenfang »

simonsarris wrote: post #9

I'm not sure we should expect anything differently, if recent graduates are less intelligent (as a cohort) than ever. [Difficult degree] enrollment is relatively flat because aptitude is flat, and grad jobs will reflect this. I wrote a little about this framing it as a CS degree problem, but it seems true for a lot more than just CS. > Can we prove aptitude is flat? Kinda. In 1970s 1-in-2 college grads aced Wordsum t…

Aptitude might be flat due to current methods of K12 schooling. Just a thought. I don't think people are any stupider now than they have been, just methods of schooling have changed significantly in the last 50 (even 20) years.

I'm not necessarily talking coursework, either -- how students are treated is very different.

Re: Recent Graduates Are Most Likely to Work in Sales, Making around $40K

#40

Post by cableshaft »

Animats wrote: post #20
EternalData wrote: post #13

I feel like an apt title for a book about late-stage capitalism would be "A Society of Salespeople". With that said, I'm not exactly sure what type of career path somebody studying, say, political science could embark on -- it seems to me that there's a lot more demand for accreditation in certain fields than there is demand for actual practitioners.

Napoleon once referred to England as an "island of shopkeepers". Computers are getting better at sales. Amazon doesn't have salespeople. Retailers barely have salespeople any more. Outside of real estate, cars, and financial products, what B2C companies do?

There's still a lot of salespeople, they're just not a lot that individual citizens have to interact with everyday, usually.

Selling to businesses, for example, pretty much requires salespeople. For example, I know someone in corporate real estate, and you wouldn't believe the type of shit the salespeople get away with there or how ridiculous their compensation is (especially compared to her, who does just as much work trying to win business when putting together the proposals those salespeople present).

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