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After 15 years of practice..

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Re: After 15 years of practice..

#31

Post by caryme »

Like any instrument, technique plays an extremely important role in singing. Poor intonation is less an indicator of a good voice and more of good technique. Of course no one would criticize a girl who picked up a cello and just started playing for just not being a cellist, but also no one would advise her to simply practice alone. The best advice is for that girl to find a good teacher and get some lessons.

I find it interesting that Derek downplays the role of his teachers. He mentions he took lessons with several teachers, but neglects to tell us anything about them. I could not begin to describe my development as a singer without discussing my teachers.

Yes, it takes practice to become a good singer, but any number of hours of practicing poor technique won't do much good.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#32

Post by srgseg »

I've long been fascinated with why people decide to do their 10,000 hours of practice.

Many people I know have talked the talk but then never really had the motivation to walk the walk and put in the effort.

Any ideas on what gives people the internal motivation and strength to follow through with practice in the first place?

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#33

Post by elviejo »

This is simply an expression of "Deliberate Practice" http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/how-talente...

"""A while ago, we wrote a New York Times Magazine column about talent — what it is, how it’s acquired, etc. The gist of the column was that “raw talent,” as it’s often called, is vastly overrated, and that people who become very good at something, whether it’s sports, music, or medicine, generally do so through a great deal of “deliberate practice,” a phrase used by the Florida State psychologist Anders Ericsson and his merry band of fellow scholars who study expert performers in many fields.

As we wrote, there are at least three key elements to deliberate practice:

1. Setting specific goals. 2. Obtaining immediate feedback. 3. Concentrating as much on technique as on outcome.""""

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#34

Post by jerf »

caryme wrote: post #31

Like any instrument, technique plays an extremely important role in singing. Poor intonation is less an indicator of a good voice and more of good technique. Of course no one would criticize a girl who picked up a cello and just started playing for just not being a cellist, but also no one would advise her to simply practice alone. The best advice is for that girl to find a good teacher and get some lessons. I find i…

"I find it interesting that Derek downplays the role of his teachers. He mentions he took lessons with several teachers, but neglects to tell us anything about them."

Follow the links! http://sivers.org/more-than-one

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#35

Post by mhd »

So, singer-hackers, does the 80/20 rule apply to this, too? I'm not too interested in becoming a great singer, but I'd certainly practice more guitar playing (and would dare to grab it while sitting at a campfire) if I wouldn't be scared of my own voice...

(No, karaoke is straight out. Compared to me, Fran Drescher is the Queen of the Night. I think I actually sounded better while my voice was breaking.)

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#36

Post by caryme »

jerf wrote: post #34
caryme wrote: post #31

Like any instrument, technique plays an extremely important role in singing. Poor intonation is less an indicator of a good voice and more of good technique. Of course no one would criticize a girl who picked up a cello and just started playing for just not being a cellist, but also no one would advise her to simply practice alone. The best advice is for that girl to find a good teacher and get some lessons. I find i…

"I find it interesting that Derek downplays the role of his teachers. He mentions he took lessons with several teachers, but neglects to tell us anything about them." Follow the links! http://sivers.org/more-than-one

Thanks, I missed that link. Still, I'm especially interested to hear about his early lessons as well as the ones closer to his breakthrough period.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing him or his teachers. I'm just more interested in their role in his development as a singer than his practicing.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#37

Post by limist »

studer wrote: post #21
tudorachim wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim originally came from the Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performance ( http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Expertise-Performance-Handbo... ).

Umm, that's a bit backwards -- the 10k hours number comes from research by K. Anders Ericsson et al, and the first papers mentioning this are from the early nineties, if not earlier (as for book references, it's discussed in Ericsson's "The Road To Excellence" that predates the Cambridge Handbook by a decade).

Yes, here's one of Ericsson's landmark papers on the topic, 1993:

http://projects.ict.usc.edu/itw/gel/EricssonDeliberatePracti...

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#38

Post by [deleted] »

lanstein wrote: post #25
electromagnetic wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7' tall basketball players are only good because the game is played inefficiently. Shorter players have a distinct advantage when throwing underarm and can get ridiculous score percentages. Tall players throwing 'properly' are taking a side-shot at the goal rather than confronting the problem head on by going vertical. Basketball is such a bastardised sport that height and speed are the dominant skills at play in the…

Ok, I have to ask: When was the last time you watched basketball? Nobody showing great accuracy? Ray Allen? Kobe Bryant?

[deleted]

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#39

Post by ghshephard »

What everyone fails to note is that in order to profit from these years of practice, you do have to have a baseline ability in the endeavor that you are trying to develop expertise.

I've never met a great programmer who couldn't grok something like pointers to pointers with just a few exposures. Your mind is either wired that way or it isn't. No amount of practicing is going to rewire it, no matter how hard (or long) you try.

But, once you do pass the baseline - absolutely, practice does make perfect.

Re: After 15 years of practice..

#40

Post by bootload »

lanstein wrote: post #25
electromagnetic wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7' tall basketball players are only good because the game is played inefficiently. Shorter players have a distinct advantage when throwing underarm and can get ridiculous score percentages. Tall players throwing 'properly' are taking a side-shot at the goal rather than confronting the problem head on by going vertical. Basketball is such a bastardised sport that height and speed are the dominant skills at play in the…

Ok, I have to ask: When was the last time you watched basketball? Nobody showing great accuracy? Ray Allen? Kobe Bryant?

"... Ok, I have to ask: When was the last time you watched basketball? Nobody showing great accuracy? Ray Allen? Kobe Bryant? ..."

From the foul line nobody beats Rick Barry using the underhand free throw ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4eJSjwlD5o&feature=relat...

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