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Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

independent.co.uk

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Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#31

Post by sandworm101 »

xroche wrote: post #21
stringcode wrote: post #6

Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.

> This is why hate speech laws are dangerous. You are mixing apples and oranges. Hate speech laws are perfectly fine, they intent to protect people from being harassed and attacked for what they are (philosophically, religiously, skin color...). This is not hate speech law: no group or people or people are involved here, only an imaginary character. If I say "death to religious people", this should be criminalized. I…

"Death to.." any actual person should be criminalized. Disallowing calls to kill certain groups, but not people generally, makes the law turn on the definition of what is or isnt a protected group. That's too vague for free speech. Calling for the extrajudicial killing of any actual person is the more workable and just approach.

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#32

Post by jeff_petersen »

johnnydoe9 wrote: post #4
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Apparently the most powerful entity in the entire universe needs government protection from the opinion of Stephen Fry. Doesn't seem like a fair fight to me.

Fry should make a statement similar to what Colbert made recently for his remarks against Trump "I've got the jokes, he's got the launch codes so it's a fair fight"

Homophobia isn't excusable no matter what position the target holds.

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#33

Post by tomjen3 »

stringcode wrote: post #6

Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.

There is a a guy being charged for burning, or threatening to burn a quran in Denmark right now.

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#34

Post by johnnydoe9 »

jeff_petersen wrote: post #32
johnnydoe9 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fry should make a statement similar to what Colbert made recently for his remarks against Trump "I've got the jokes, he's got the launch codes so it's a fair fight"

Homophobia isn't excusable no matter what position the target holds.

Don't think Colbert's statement was homophobic though, don't want to fight genuinely want to know what made you think it was?

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#35

Post by morganvachon »

stringcode wrote: post #6

Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.

As others have stated, the complainant is likely bringing the accusation not to punish Mr. Fry, but to bring the outdated law into the spotlight so the people will be moved to strike it from the constitution.

In effect, the anonymous accuser is doing exactly what you, a freedom loving person, would want him to do: Call these laws out for their backwards and repressive themes.

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#36

Post by tim333 »

eternalban wrote: post #16
kristianc wrote: post #11

This is troubling. This a legitimate philosophical problem that dates back to Epicurus, Hume, Kant. It's something theologians since Aquinas have wrestled with, and that modern philosophers such have taken up. It applies as much to Christianity as it does to Judaism and Islam. There's no reason for this to be covered by blasphemy laws, even if you accepted blasphemy laws as legitimate.

It is legitimate but it is also of the sophomoric category of questions. As for Islam that you mention, there are no such issues in Islam. Stephen Fry is arguing the same position that Satan does in the Qur'an, pointing out 'errors' in God's judgment. The Angels question God too in the Qur'an, but they do it very politely ..

Hmm...

>Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger – Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment...

>They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy). [Quran 33:57–61]

You could argue calling Allah “stupid” and an “utter maniac” might annoy him, hypothetically.

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#37

Post by angry-hacker »

stringcode wrote: post #6

Yesterday I would argue this is unimaginable, someone being investigated for blasphemy in 2017 (in the west). We are dropping the ball on free speech. We chipping away on our liberties bit by bit. This is why hate speech laws are dangerous.

Canada going with the laws of stopping islamophobia (what does it even mean?) the West is on the downhill. I need to create a religion fast to protect my ideas - - also the ones o might have in the future, I'm not sure yet. Who wants to join to make it more credible?

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#38

Post by ameen »

stringcode wrote: post #25
xroche wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why hate speech laws are dangerous. You are mixing apples and oranges. Hate speech laws are perfectly fine, they intent to protect people from being harassed and attacked for what they are (philosophically, religiously, skin color...). This is not hate speech law: no group or people or people are involved here, only an imaginary character. If I say "death to religious people", this should be criminalized. I…

I agree with you in principle. What I was trying to say is that hate speech laws (and laws of similar spirit) tend to be written vaguely and leave room for unfavourable interpretation. Particularly in current climate, governments seem to be all too happy to sacrifice liberties under the disguise of protecting this or that (perceived as oppressed) minority.

Is the alternative a free-for-all against minorities (perceived as oppressed?).

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#39

Post by ameen »

psyc wrote: post #28
xroche wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why hate speech laws are dangerous. You are mixing apples and oranges. Hate speech laws are perfectly fine, they intent to protect people from being harassed and attacked for what they are (philosophically, religiously, skin color...). This is not hate speech law: no group or people or people are involved here, only an imaginary character. If I say "death to religious people", this should be criminalized. I…

If I say "death to religious people", this should be criminalized. I think the American standard is fine. You can say that, but you can't say "let's kill those religious people over there."

But you can act on it.

Re: Stephen Fry under police investigation for blasphemy in Ireland [video]

#40

Post by [deleted] »

tim333 wrote: post #36
eternalban wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is legitimate but it is also of the sophomoric category of questions. As for Islam that you mention, there are no such issues in Islam. Stephen Fry is arguing the same position that Satan does in the Qur'an, pointing out 'errors' in God's judgment. The Angels question God too in the Qur'an, but they do it very politely ..

Hmm... >Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger – Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment... >They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy). [Quran 33:57–61] You could argue calling Allah “stupid” and an “utter maniac” might annoy him, hypothetically.

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