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Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

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Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#31

Post by beloch »

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems to care.

Turkey is nothing like the common stereotypes we have of it in the West, but Erdogan is a guy who, I think, wants to change that. A wonderful human being who I've had the privilege of knowing is currently in prison in Turkey on absolutely baseless accusations[1]. Nobody in Canada gives a damn because he was an "Imam", and that's a scary word apparently.

People in the West need to wake up and do their due diligence on Erdogan's regime. There's some seriously scary stuff happening because of this guy.

[1]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/davud-hanci-turkey-cou...

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#32

Post by tmalsburg2 »

maze-le wrote: post #27
tmalsburg2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad idea. Using Tor is probably the best way to attract extra scrutiny.

Not if a significant proportion of the population uses it.

But that's not the case and it's going to happen. In the real world, I think it very reckless to tell your friends to use Tor in Turkey.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#33

Post by jerheinze »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #26
StavrosK wrote: post #23

I'm assuming Tor circumvents the ban, correct? I'm going to tell all my Turkish friends to install Tor and signal, and be sad that Turkey has reached this point.

Bad idea. Using Tor is probably the best way to attract extra scrutiny.

Not if one uses bridges with pluggable transports which helps making the Tor traffic look less like it's Tor (for example meek-amazon uses domain fronting https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/meek )

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#35

Post by someguu »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #29
someguu wrote: post #4

Governments yield too much power, meanwhile citizens keep funding said governments with ridiculously high taxes. Trying to fix governments is counterproductive, just need to decentralize things imho.

> just need to decentralize things imho. Just -- you say this as if it was easy but no one knows how to do this and whether it is possible at all. Just see how long decentralization lasted in the case of Bitcoin.

Where did I say it was an easy problem to solve?

Lookup the definition of just.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#36

Post by candiodari »

sethbannon wrote: post #12

Meanwhile, in the U.S., the administration is taking down government websites in an effort to bury climate data and scientific information. Useful to remember it's not just countries like China and Turkey that try to limit citizens' access to information. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20...

Important caveat: the US government is reducing it's own efforts to combat climate change. That's not censorship.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#37

Post by agsamek »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

I think 2016 will go down as the high water mark for a global Internet. I see a lot of countries looking at the success of China in keeping political control, and the failure of Egypt, Tunisia, etc where the open Internet was used to overthrow the regime and deciding that allowing an open, free internet is not in their best interests. If you think that Western, liberal democracies are exempt from this, just look at t…

Great summary. One missing thing is that goverments are getting better at using free Internet for propaganda. In Poland we have open Internet so far, but we are increasingly exposed to Russian goverment news/comments that are factually wrong but repeated consistently.

Basically - we see the same thing we already saw with free market. It is not free by itself. Countries and companies can use it to establish monopolies.

Freedom is not for free. It is something we need to define, establish and then continuously fight for it.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#38

Post by ykler »

jerheinze wrote: post #14
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

I think 2016 will go down as the high water mark for a global Internet. I see a lot of countries looking at the success of China in keeping political control, and the failure of Egypt, Tunisia, etc where the open Internet was used to overthrow the regime and deciding that allowing an open, free internet is not in their best interests. If you think that Western, liberal democracies are exempt from this, just look at t…

Yup, censorship is now a global trend. We shouldn't forget that it also happens in many Western countries such as Denmark, Finland, France, ... https://explorer.ooni.torproject.org/world/ And if we look in particular at government censorship of Wikipedia or some articles in it we find quiet a few Western countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_censorship_of_Wikip...

I don't understand what the "anomalies" this site detects in Denmark, Finland, and France represent, but the site itself says that they don't necessarily represent censorship and that it has only confirmed censorship in the following 12 countries: Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, India, Indonesia, Greece, Sudan, Belgium, Cyprus and Korea.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#39

Post by rdslw »

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#40

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

I think a major issue with Turkey is that there is a large non-secular voting bloc. Historically, that has been kept in check by periodic coupes by the Kemalist military. However, Erdogan has succeeded in taming the military (as demonstrated vividly by the failed coupe). Thus, the non-secular voting bloc has escaped the historic check. I am afraid, Turkey will become less secular in the next few years. In addition, there is not much we can do externally, as evidenced by the latest referendum, Erdogan has the support of a majority of voters.
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