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Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC

devuan.org

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Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC

#31

Post by cryptarch »

hfjfktnc wrote: post #17
ThatGeoGuy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Devuan user (not a dev), it's more than just the init system though. Devuan is also doing lots of heavy lifting to keep udev separate from systemd, as well as other things (consolekit and polkit come to mind, as does dbus). At this point systemd is a whole lot more than an init system. Most people don't have a complaint with regards to systemd units or how fast it boots, it's more to do with the amount of depend…

> Devuan is also doing lots of heavy lifting to keep udev separate from systemd So they do nothing as udev and systemd already are separate packages in Debian?

udev is part of the systemd code repository, and is not supported in systemd-less setups by upstream.

"Separate packages" does not imply "no dependencies".

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC

#32

Post by cryptarch »

jwn wrote: post #3

Anyone care to explain why SystemD is so contentious to the point it's worth forking Debian?

I think the main problem is tight udev and kdbus integration with systemd, and applications that use either of those components implicitly depending on systemd.

That, and systemd having large scope creep, absurd ways of dealing with bugs ("this old system is broken because it does not use our interface"), and generally behaving in a dominating and lock-in-promoting manner.

I found this list on the way: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_...

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC

#33

Post by feld »

JdeBP wrote: post #25
feld wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a day fighting to get systemd to properly handle bind mounts on boot. It doesn't reliably mount them and there are tons of blog and forum posts complaining about it. It also surprised us that it doesn't obey the "bg" flag for NFS. You have to use "nofail" instead. I have been informed today that a new MySQL cluster built at work on CentOS 7.3 doesn't reliably start MySQL on boot. We have none of these problem…

MySQL is a topic of discussion on the systemd-devel mailing list right now, coincidentally. * https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2017-Ap...

The finger pointing in this thread is astonishing

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC

#34

Post by hfjfktnc »

cryptarch wrote: post #31
hfjfktnc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Devuan is also doing lots of heavy lifting to keep udev separate from systemd So they do nothing as udev and systemd already are separate packages in Debian?

udev is part of the systemd code repository, and is not supported in systemd-less setups by upstream. "Separate packages" does not imply "no dependencies".

And what does Devuan do?

Hint: udev in Devuan is just the unmodified Debian package. So much for the "heavy lifting" done by Devuan in the last years.

And udev w/o systemd is still supported upstream, just not building only udev (one also builds the systemd binaries and throws them away).

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC

#35

Post by JdeBP »

hfjfktnc wrote: post #34
cryptarch wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

udev is part of the systemd code repository, and is not supported in systemd-less setups by upstream. "Separate packages" does not imply "no dependencies".

And what does Devuan do? Hint: udev in Devuan is just the unmodified Debian package. So much for the "heavy lifting" done by Devuan in the last years. And udev w/o systemd is still supported upstream, just not building only udev (one also builds the systemd binaries and throws them away).

You both need to see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609980

Re: Devuan Jessie 1.0 RC

#36

Post by ilwtekuysd »

JdeBP wrote: post #35
hfjfktnc wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what does Devuan do? Hint: udev in Devuan is just the unmodified Debian package. So much for the "heavy lifting" done by Devuan in the last years. And udev w/o systemd is still supported upstream, just not building only udev (one also builds the systemd binaries and throws them away).

You both need to see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11609980

You mean the "This system is mothballed."?

So, one person tried to write a replacement for udev and gave up. What should that tell me?

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