Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#31

Post by ilugaslifg » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 8:55 PM UTC

Vancouver: where senior developers would be genuinely lucky to top out at $90k, a single bedroom on a transit line is $800k, a teardown in a distant suburb is $1.5M, and bottom shelf cheese costs $40/lb.

I don't think a startup scene in a city is ever going to really blow up when sticking around in that city is giving up the possibility of building any kind of future for yourself.

Everybody I know who's worth half a damn moved to Seattle.

----

Toronto: maybe.

Montreal: sure.

The prairies: "Is Fargo the next up-and-coming startup center?"

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#32

Post by TP4Cornholio » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 8:57 PM UTC

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

I can't believe it's so low. I hope Canadians aren't asked to put in overtime at those wages.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#33

Post by untog » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

It's an interesting situation. Not difficult to imagine Canadians moving to the US, while immigrants who lose out on H1B visas take their place in Canada.

Of course, Trump has said before he's not a huge fan of NAFTA either, so...

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#34

Post by ganfortran » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

Well if you cannot stay in US, going to Canada is better than nothing. Trump says it all.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#35

Post by endorphone » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

While I do have a grievance with a much lower pay ceiling across Canada, those numbers are ridiculously low even if in US dollars as I assume they are. I don't put much stock in the StackOverflow survey.

And I'm not trying to be argumentative, but your take on TN visas is extremely simplified. For instance software developers aren't actually allowed to have a TN visa, and instead you have to say that you're a "system analyst". Only they've actually started strictly demanding proof that you're an analyst and not a programmer, etc. Add that any single border crossing can lead to a revocation of your TN visa.

No thanks.

EDIT: Before more people reply with general comments, I am specifically talking about the salary claims for "ML Specialist" and embedded developers. Those numbers -- and I happen to have a good amount of reason to know this -- are ludicrously low. But yes, if you're a web developer, a generalist, etc, pay will be terrible in much of Canada, just as it's terrible in much of the US.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#36

Post by accountyaccount » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

Is that adjusted for cost of living?

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#37

Post by jonathannorris » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

scosman wrote: post #30

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

Those seem too low, both US and Canada. Is anyone really paying a ML specialist $53k?

I'm assuming that comparison is converting CAD to USD which would make it ~$72k CAD, because $53k is way to low. But that doesn't make this comparison any more realistic seeing as you'd be living in Canada spending CAD.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#38

Post by nightski » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

hughes wrote: post #27

This article doesn't mention one of the major reasons for talent leaving Canada: if you work there, you need to stomach a 50% pay cut in average salaries vs the US. This is true pretty much across the board regardless of tech niche on the 2017 Stack Overflow Developer Survey[1]: Machine learning specialist: US 108k, Canada 53k (49%) Embedded applications/devices developer: US 100k, Canada 53k (53%) Systems administra…

Statistics are good for describing populations. Average pay can be a useful metric. However, when looking at what you or I might earn in Canada it is completely useless. I make 4x the average where I live. Salary is very negotiable and often has a lot of variance.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#39

Post by chefandy » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

Meh. The weather is already too cold for me in the Northern US.

Re: Canada is North America’s up-and-coming startup center

#40

Post by moojah » Thu, Apr 20, 2017, 9:02 PM UTC

This sounds like the typical Silicon-everywhere story. Any big developed country now has a "start up scene", and rightly so. Otherwise they wouldn't be developed. Relatively speaking, all of them are up and coming, as they're all catching up with the original silicon valley.

The only notable and interesting stories are when the articles compare absolute investment amounts, tech GDP growth, IPOs, open tech jobs or other real measurable comparisons. This seems to be lacking any of these deeper comparison to actually non-trivially show how this area is really the "up-and-coming startup center" of North America.