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This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#31

Post by spectre »

hop wrote: post #13

My human sexuality teacher in college complained that engineering profs are paid more money, she had no perception of market value. I'm sure it would go over like the bay of pigs, but if the gov't and colleges starting subsidizing majors based on their projected income, there surely would not be as many post college financial problems and the US would benefit from more engineers, scientists, etc. China is doing it be…

My University, considered going the other way last year and had a number of discussions about charging more for Engineering and Law courses than Arts courses due to future earning potentials.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#32

Post by liedra »

robryan wrote: post #9

It was her decision to take the loans and go to that particular college. Now it was probably the wrong one but she decided on it and would have been able to see where the debt was taking her if she looked into it properly, the terms of these loans haven't changed. It goes back to the problem of people perceiving the value for money all wrong, would you pay 5 to 10 times more for a similar functioning car just based o…

It's a bit close to home since I did a PhD in a "useless" area (philosophy) but my area of philosophy happens to be very popular at the moment in industry as well as university so it's more likely that I'd get a job (I do technology ethics). However, I have a friend who did a PhD in gender studies and is having a bit of trouble finding a permanent position (she tutors at university level). Mind you, unlike me, she wasn't willing to travel to where the jobs might be - you definitely have to keep this in mind when you decide whether to pursue your degree! For me it was a no-brainer, there's only one really big centre in AU that does what I do, and in academia it's usually good to get a postdoc from a different university, so I moved to Europe.

I think in academia you have to be willing to travel. I'm starting to realise what a pain in the arse that is though! :) It's nice to feel "settled" in a place, and I suspect I won't get that feeling for a while yet (until I'm in a long-term position anyway).

I think that the big problem is that kids who go into university do what they enjoy doing (which isn't wrong, they should absolutely be encouraged to do what they enjoy doing!) but when they realise they can't be at university for the rest of their lives, unless they're willing to fight for academic positions, find themselves up shit creek, so to speak. I honestly don't think they realise that they're going to have trouble getting a job until they're well into the degree, and by then it's far too late.

I personally think it sucks that people should be discouraged from doing the "less useful" degrees just because there are a buttload of fees that get dumped on them that they need to repay later and they may not get a job that will cover that. Noone is EVER going to make a billion dollars working in gender studies or religious studies, but it's important to have those who do it (for the love!) for research and teaching purposes. But then you have a problem -- how are those people, who are highly educated but not ever going to make $$$, and yet are going to teach the next generation of students, going to pay back the debts they amass? Yeah, I don't like the American system very much :)

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#33

Post by younata »

DilipJ wrote: post #29
tkahn6 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This woman has some major balls to blame her shitty choice in a major and subsequent debt on other people. She made a poor choice and she needs to pay for it. This is a systemic problem and the only way to cure it is to enforce personal responsibility.

She was young when she made this choice. To suggest that she should be liable for the rest of her life for this decision is crazy. Student loans should be dischargeable under bankruptcy, or should be debt that one can negotiate with the lender. There's something wrong with allowing mortgage and credit card debt to be discharged by people who buy McMansions or go on vacations, but not to some poor girl wanting to get…

or, they could choose less expensive colleges. Like a state college. CSU Stanislaus is $5,000 / year or so last I checked (September 2009). $20,000 probably wouldn't have required a loan at all. Because she's paid at least $100,000 or so of it. 50k / year * 4 years is 200k, and she owes 97k, so most likely she got some scholarships that helped a lot.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#34

Post by india »

dmor wrote: post #11
philwelch wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to get a liberal arts degree, either have enough money to afford it, or be so intensely interested in the liberal arts that you're willing to pay back your damn loans. There's no human right to be educated in something useless at no expense to yourself, and I say that as someone with a BA in philosophy.

"There's no human right to be educated in something useless at no expense to yourself, and I say that as someone with a BA in philosophy." Rock on, we need more philosophers like you.

Au contraire, I think if everyone with a demonstrable ability to learn and the demonstrated desire to do so was allowed to do so free of expense, society as a whole would be way better off.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#35

Post by DilipJ »

herdrick wrote: post #19

It was a terrible idea to have a class of debts that can't be discharged with bankruptcy. That it's mostly incurred by young who lack perspective makes it even worse. Someday people will look back on this the way we view debtor's prison.

Yes, it's a travesty that some private equity/LBO guy can have their debts removed, but not this poor girl. The law needs to be changed, especially when you consider how young she and others like her are when they make this decision. She's not considered old enough to drink, but it's okay to make her sign a document that says she is liable for a six-figure debt, for an asset that the lenders know is severely overvalued?

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#36

Post by thefool »

The counter (counter) argument is that maybe college shouldn't cost so damn much in the first place (and for a large part aid structures at top schools (that can afford it) have been changing in line with this argument).

She probably got the short end of the stick because her mom owned a business that had a lot of revenue which precluded her from aid. Yet this business also had a lot of overhead, so their actual income wasn't actually that big.

This problem effects a lot of people that I know.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#37

Post by lsb »

philwelch wrote: post #6
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

1000 words later... She recently received a raise and now makes $22 an hour working for a photographer. It's the highest salary she's earned since graduating with an interdisciplinary degree in religious and women's studies. [...] "I don't want to spend the rest of my life slaving away to pay for an education I got for four years and would happily give back," she said. "It feels wrong to me." Words fail me.

If you're going to get a liberal arts degree, either have enough money to afford it, or be so intensely interested in the liberal arts that you're willing to pay back your damn loans. There's no human right to be educated in something useless at no expense to yourself, and I say that as someone with a BA in philosophy.

As a Latin major, I wholeheartedly agree. You can learn a lot from any major, and you can create something valuable from any major, and it's irresponsible to try to just give up because there's nothing immediately valuable to create.

Can't she try to educate kids about the job prospects of women's studies majors? Can't she make a job board for her unemployed peers? Can't she turn her photographic abilities into an art hobby too and sell prints of religious symbolism in urban or rural settings? There's so much she could do, but it sounds like she just wants to push Reset.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#38

Post by spc476 »

dmor wrote: post #16

Reading down to the bottom... "After taxes, she takes home about $2,300 a month. Rent runs $750, and the full monthly payments on her student loans would be about $700 if they weren't being deferred, which would not leave a lot left over." How is $850 not a lot left over for discretionary spending when you are 26 and just starting your career? You eat crap food, walk and take public trans and you make it work. This s…

And at $700/month it would take her nearly 12 years to pay the loan off. I'm guessing math isn't one of her strong suits either.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#39

Post by herdrick »

I'm surprised at the comments here. Yes, spending $100k to get a silly degree is a mistake for a middle class kid, but not a crime. It's a key principle, for moral and practical reasons, that we allow people a way out of crushing debt.

Liberal arts and humanities departments that deceive prospective students to keep their headcount up so as to justify their existence are as much to blame as the students who believe them.

Re: This Woman Has $97K in Student Loans. Who's to Blame?

#40

Post by mcu »

Here's my question: Why is an unsecured loan for education any different than any other unsecured loan?

Remember, these aren't backed by the federal government. These are variable rate loans, often with double digit interest rates, 10 year re-payment plans, and virtually no consumer protections (even bankruptcy.)

I'm lucky that I can make my $1,400 monthly payments. When I left school, I thought that I would be able to pay my loans off in 20-30 years. A few weeks after leaving school I was floored when I found out that I had to repay my loan in just 10 years. No negotiation, no other options. Pay what they ask or they ruin your credit.

Personally, I'm on the fence about including student loans in a bankruptcy. It's not an option for me, but should someone have to live their entire life in service to a bank because congress changed a law in 2005?

Should a bank really be making $100,000 unsecured loans to 18-22 yo-s just because someone in their (future) field has the potential to repay it?

OTOH: What are thinking going to schools that cost $40,000+ a year when we have no means.

At least this taught me the value of unflinching frugality.

Proposal to include private student loans in a bankruptcy: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.5043:

Exceptions to Discharge: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode11/usc_sec_11_0...

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