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What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

larrysukernik.com

31–40 of 134 posts

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is from January 2016, by the way.

Makes sense, is there any data from 2017?

Betterment has $8B as of March 16, 2017: SEC form ADV page 8, "Regulatory Assets under Management"

https://www.adviserinfo.sec.gov/IAPD/content/ViewForm/crd_ia...

edit: Wealthfront $5B https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/IAPD/content/ViewForm/crd_iapd_s...

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#32
post #3

Wealthfront has raised ~$100M and Betterment has raised ~$200M. If they are only burning $4M/year to grow as fast as they are, they are doing fantastically well. I suspect though that the author's burn rates are off by an order of magnitude.

Also, both Betterment and Wealthfront have grown AUM since this article was written: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13959061

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you have a broker, or a 401k?

Yes, I have Vanguard but decided to give Betterment a try when they first launched.

I think twblalock is trying to say there's an app for that: Vanguard by The Vanguard Group, Inc. https://appsto.re/us/HKO-t.i

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#34
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you moved your money to Vanguard and invested in the same funds Betterment currently invests in for you, and you rebalanced as often as necessary, you would get a slightly higher ROI at Vanguard because Vanguard has lower fees. However, all of the things Betterment does for you now would be your responsibility, including asset selection, rebalancing, thinking about how to manage taxes, etc. The bottom line is that…

I know next to nothing about investing and this is exactly why I'm using Betterment. Even with the recent hikes in fees they're still cheaper than hiring a financial adviser. I really feel like I have very little choice but to stay put. However, how does one get started managing their investment account? I have more than 100K tied up in Betterment and trial-and-error type of learning could be pretty disastrous.

Read through the Bogleheads wiki, especially the pages about "lazy portfolios." There are some recommended books on that site as well.

I disagree with some of the Boglehead stuff, but the wiki is a good resource.

You don't need to do any trial and error. You just need to pick some funds and hold onto them for a long time. The funds Betterment has already picked for you are probably pretty good.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#35

While we're on the topic of robo-advisors, I'd love to see a robo-advisor that lets clients customize a portfolio allocation and just advises them on when and what to trade to keep their portfolio balanced on a regular schedule, for a fixed fee. That is, instead of these so-called robo-advisors that are actually robo- managers , in the sense that they manage your portfolio and trade on your behalf, and are compensate…

My 457 plan has a Morningstar service that does this, but it won't tell you proactively.

You answer their questions or pick a portfolio and they update a report monthly that will tell you what to buy/sell to line up with your target.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#36
post #6

In the article, it states that Chase is offering 0% funds, yet Betterment claims that their "All-in Actual Cost" for a 100k fund is better than Chase's due to cash drag and a lower expense ratio. (Found here: https://www.betterment.com/comparison/schwab-intelligent-por... ) This is confusing and hard to fact check. Who do I believe?

Neither option is better than a Vanguard account with one of their target date funds (or funds targeted by level of aggressiveness). Vanguard is a mutual company; they exist for the benefit of their users. Hard to compete against that. Disclaimer: moved from Betterment to Vanguard

The one advantage with these robo advisors, or any broker for that matter, compared to a mutual fund is tax loss harvesting.

By having a separately managed account of ETFs or stocks, you can sell and exchange similar stocks when they lose value and harvest the tax losses to use at a later date.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#37
post #6

In the article, it states that Chase is offering 0% funds, yet Betterment claims that their "All-in Actual Cost" for a 100k fund is better than Chase's due to cash drag and a lower expense ratio. (Found here: https://www.betterment.com/comparison/schwab-intelligent-por... ) This is confusing and hard to fact check. Who do I believe?

Index-based robo-advisors generally invest your money in vanguard, ishares, schwab broad-market etfs, which come with their own fees (industry-lowest). The expense ratio is the accumulation of all those fees. To check the accuracy of the claim, you would need to find the specific instruments each company invests in, at what proportions, and add up their fees. Cash drag is the penalty you pay for the time and amount o…

Cash has some benefit too. I usually keep a reserve of cash that I float and use to rebalance based on market conditions due to trading restrictions that make dollar cost averaging harder.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#38
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither option is better than a Vanguard account with one of their target date funds (or funds targeted by level of aggressiveness). Vanguard is a mutual company; they exist for the benefit of their users. Hard to compete against that. Disclaimer: moved from Betterment to Vanguard

The one advantage with these robo advisors, or any broker for that matter, compared to a mutual fund is tax loss harvesting. By having a separately managed account of ETFs or stocks, you can sell and exchange similar stocks when they lose value and harvest the tax losses to use at a later date.

TLH is oversold a bit these days: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=206806 It's unclear how much of a difference it really makes for most people.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#39
post #6

In the article, it states that Chase is offering 0% funds, yet Betterment claims that their "All-in Actual Cost" for a 100k fund is better than Chase's due to cash drag and a lower expense ratio. (Found here: https://www.betterment.com/comparison/schwab-intelligent-por... ) This is confusing and hard to fact check. Who do I believe?

Index-based robo-advisors generally invest your money in vanguard, ishares, schwab broad-market etfs, which come with their own fees (industry-lowest). The expense ratio is the accumulation of all those fees. To check the accuracy of the claim, you would need to find the specific instruments each company invests in, at what proportions, and add up their fees. Cash drag is the penalty you pay for the time and amount o…

I think it depends. I use schwab and just keep part of my emergency fund in the cash reserves.

Re: What's The End Goal for Wealthfront and Betterment? (2016)

#40
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you moved your money to Vanguard and invested in the same funds Betterment currently invests in for you, and you rebalanced as often as necessary, you would get a slightly higher ROI at Vanguard because Vanguard has lower fees. However, all of the things Betterment does for you now would be your responsibility, including asset selection, rebalancing, thinking about how to manage taxes, etc. The bottom line is that…

I know next to nothing about investing and this is exactly why I'm using Betterment. Even with the recent hikes in fees they're still cheaper than hiring a financial adviser. I really feel like I have very little choice but to stay put. However, how does one get started managing their investment account? I have more than 100K tied up in Betterment and trial-and-error type of learning could be pretty disastrous.

Agree with the sibling comment -- you can achieve a good portfolio allocation with 3-4 ETFs. What Wealthfront and Betterment do is pick these funds for you, then charge you 0.25% year over year for the privilege of maintaining them. It's not the best deal for the investor because the work is not particularly hard -- "managing" your investments as a Boglehead would ideally involve logging into Vanguard once a year to rebalance.

(In fairness, they do some other stuff which is more value-added like TLH, which is more work to do yourself, but again, it's hard to justify the 0.25%.)

"If You Can" by William Berstein is a good, short ebook on this subject.

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