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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#31

Post by PuffinBlue »

prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff.

Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years.

The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part.

The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to a constantly filling drum that wouldn't be emptied. Que the film style comedy of water vomiting forth from the soap dispenser tray all over the kitchen.

The warranty is only 2 years standard (thanks for that at least EU) but anything more is paid. No 10 year guarantee anymore!

And mine wasn't the only newer Miele I've seen with expensive early failures as other friends have been caught too.

General consensus of the repair technicians I spoke with was all to get the cheapest non-condensing dryer (white-knight was mentioned as reliable but super cheap to repair if needed) you can and an LG washing machine for the sealed direct drive motor which comes with a 10 year [EDIT - seems they've dropped it to 5 years only now] guarantee.

Bosch dishwasher I'll concede is still going strong after 7 years. And It's really been abused (no filter cleaning for first 5 years!) so I take you point on that.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#33

Post by prodmerc »

koolba wrote: post #11
prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

> The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manufacturers come close, period. > Interestingly, the high-end machines from Bosch/Siemens made in Germany are higher quality than the ones made in Poland, China, Spain or Turkey. What's the price difference for a made in Germany Bosch/Siemens v.s. a wherever-it-comes-from Whirlpool? Does it justify shelling out the extra…

The price for Bosch/Siemens made in Germany is about twice as high than the ones made elsewhere.

But that's partly because they only make the top end models in Germany, with mid-range models being made in Spain or Poland, and cheaper models in China.

They should last longer, be quieter and have all the extra features, but I'm not sure if it's worth double the price.

I always use last generation high end stuff (refurb or used), and fix it myself.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#34

Post by bambax »

The only brands I ever buy are Miele and Siemens; they're both German; Miele has always been family owned; not sure about Siemens (huge conglomerate).

Miele machines are expensive but indestructible. Siemens ones are very strong and not much dearer than other brands.

Are those not available in the US?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#36

Post by Chai-T-Rex »

One thing that shouldn't be discounted is survivorship bias. The machines from the 1960s that broke early on aren't around anymore. The only machines from the 1960s that are left are those which last a long time.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#37

Post by Klathmon »

iopuy wrote: post #28

I have a theory that this is also being done with cars sold specifically in the United States. I spent some time abroad in South America a few years ago and I'm convinced our crappy cars wouldn't hold up a year driving on the unpaved roads and rocky desert terrain the resident's down there are used to. Meanwhile, my Argentine friend's 1980s Peugeot, missing electric windows and cd player had been on the road there fo…

Well that could be due to the different markets.

A US car manufactured to withstand south american unpaved roads would be largely wasted. 99% of people won't ever use them in that manner. So money is spent on things they will use (like infotainment systems and more "creature comfort" stuff).

In an area where unpaved roads are more common, the suspension might be beefed up, thicker steel used, an overall hardened vehicle, but the interior will be a shell of what the US car would be.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#38

Post by j3097736 »

koolba wrote: post #11
prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

> The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manufacturers come close, period. > Interestingly, the high-end machines from Bosch/Siemens made in Germany are higher quality than the ones made in Poland, China, Spain or Turkey. What's the price difference for a made in Germany Bosch/Siemens v.s. a wherever-it-comes-from Whirlpool? Does it justify shelling out the extra…

But what about the time spent moving it around/waiting for the technician/trying to repair something clearly not designed to last/shopping for a new one?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#40

Post by psadauskas »

prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor.

I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable.

Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a washer/dryer set cost $495 in 1953, which is ~$4500 in today's buying power. You can buy a cheap washer/dryer set these days for $500 on sale, which is pretty incredible. I don't know what super heavy duty high end washer/dryer you could get these days for $4500, but I bet you could find one that would last 50 years.

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