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Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

theguardian.com

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Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#31

Post by [deleted] »

faet wrote: post #5
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I am telling my Democratic friends that instead of whining about the popular vote or talking about resisting Trump in general the Democrats should develop a spine and actually stand for something. If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election.

> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.

[deleted]

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#32

Post by faet »

jressey wrote: post #15
faet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.

I don't think people had faith that these issues were actually what the Dems wanted to go after if they'd have won. Many of these only became talking points for the establishment once it became apparent that Bernie was a threat to them. It's definitely fair to say a large share of Trump voters went with their emotions as you said, but I think a lot of folks didn't believe Hillary would enact a progressive policy. If…

>If you look back to when she established herself as a politician in the 90s-00s (I'm being generous here), most of those issues were not what she was championing.

She pushed Universal Healthcare in 93.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#33

Post by baursak »

nodesocket wrote: post #13

I respect Bernie, and really admire his class and honestly. However I don't agreee with his economic and political ideology. A "hand-out" government would be near disasterious for America. It goes against one of the core principles of being American, the ability and optimism to work your way up without limits. To start a company that can be successful at home and abroad without excess regulation, red-tape, and buracr…

> the ability and optimism to work your way up without limits

Kind of like Trump did? Or the current generation of Walton family?

Anyway, I thought this was short and to the point on this subject: https://brightside.me/article/what-you-should-think-about-be...

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#34

Post by angryasian »

moomin wrote: post #9

Coming from a country where Sanders' policies are frankly uncontroversial, I wonder if pundits are discounting the effect that Sanders vastly prolonging his campaign after he'd clearly lost has had on whether the DNC wants to give him the time of day. Truth is, guy doesn't seem like much of a team player. This he has in common with Trump, but Trump won. If Trump had lost in the primaries and then the RNC had lost the…

i disagree. Sanders ran a great grassroots campaign and his message resonated with many. Lets remember Bernie had major success in the rustbelt which was key to the presidential election. I believe he really wanted to push his message and what his supporters wanted to the future of the dem party. Had the dem party actually listened to him and aligned with his message, things may have been different.

Someone that is representing a large majority of voters in this country, and not going along with the democratic line.. I call a true patriot. I hope he never becomes a team player.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#35

Post by eli_gottlieb »

faet wrote: post #5
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I am telling my Democratic friends that instead of whining about the popular vote or talking about resisting Trump in general the Democrats should develop a spine and actually stand for something. If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election.

> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.

Policy does matter. Clinton has no record of passing those policies. Sanders and the social movements backing him do have such a record.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#36

Post by forgotmysn »

buerkle wrote: post #27
technofiend wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dems need to eject their tammany-hall-esque party leadership. It was blatantly obvious the dem on the street wanted Bernie but Wasserman-Schultz ignored her constituents.

It was not blatantly obvious. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, but let's be clear. Clinton won the primaries by millions of votes. If more states had primaries instead of caucuses Clinton would have won even more states.

It was blatantly obvious.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wikileaks-emails-show-dn...

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#37

Post by akhilcacharya »

jressey wrote: post #15
faet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election. So increasing minimum wage, make it easier to unionize, universal health care, protecting/expanding social security, and a bunch of other policies that would help the working class don't count? The thing is policy doesn't matter. People want 140 characters that make them feel good even if it's bad policy.

I don't think people had faith that these issues were actually what the Dems wanted to go after if they'd have won. Many of these only became talking points for the establishment once it became apparent that Bernie was a threat to them. It's definitely fair to say a large share of Trump voters went with their emotions as you said, but I think a lot of folks didn't believe Hillary would enact a progressive policy. If…

> Many of these only became talking points for the establishment once it became apparent that Bernie was a threat to them.

Those are issues that Obama ran on twice...

>but I think a lot of folks didn't believe Hillary would enact a progressive policy.

Did they not realize the alternative?

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#38

Post by alpha_squared »

buerkle wrote: post #27
technofiend wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dems need to eject their tammany-hall-esque party leadership. It was blatantly obvious the dem on the street wanted Bernie but Wasserman-Schultz ignored her constituents.

It was not blatantly obvious. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, but let's be clear. Clinton won the primaries by millions of votes. If more states had primaries instead of caucuses Clinton would have won even more states.

I think this argument is also misleading in a variety of ways. The election cycle proved, to me, that the entire presidential race -- from primaries to general -- is largely a popularity contest and heavily run on name recognition. There's also the concern that the states that didn't even go to Clinton in the general were largely the ones that carried her in the primaries. And then there's the superdelegate system that allowed the media to push the narrative that Clinton was winning by an insurmountable margin before that was actually the case.

People who generally stayed out of politics and were largely unenthused about voting turned out to vote for a candidate who engaged with their concerns and ideologies. This was a really complicated election cycle that, (again) to me, highlighted the idea that this is all one big popularity contest and that, ultimately, the media picked the popular kids for us all before we knew it.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#39

Post by rdiddly »

technofiend wrote: post #7
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I am telling my Democratic friends that instead of whining about the popular vote or talking about resisting Trump in general the Democrats should develop a spine and actually stand for something. If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election.

Dems need to eject their tammany-hall-esque party leadership. It was blatantly obvious the dem on the street wanted Bernie but Wasserman-Schultz ignored her constituents.

"Ignored" is putting it charitably. Ignoring is when you don't listen, and just go on with what you're doing. When you react to Sanders as a threat and torpedo him with dirty politics, that's something else.

The anti-Semitism included in that initiative, plus the xenophobia of blaming the Russians for exposing the truth (which I don't think they had anything to do with), sounds a lot like a certain other major political party we're familiar with. No wonder these people don't like Bernie... they're not Democrats and he is.

Re: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party

#40

Post by eli_gottlieb »

cnnsucks wrote: post #23
maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I am telling my Democratic friends that instead of whining about the popular vote or talking about resisting Trump in general the Democrats should develop a spine and actually stand for something. If they had had a compelling message for the working class they could easily have won this election.

"compelling message for the working class" They have a compelling message for the working class. It's a message of contempt and hate. The long marriage of the working class and Democrats has ended and it wasn't the working class that walked out the door. The Democrats are down to the comfortable professional class preening its "values" and a coalition of grievance groups. Everyone else is on the other side pulling ba…

I don't see the Republican Party championing anything for the working class but death.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432796/working-class-wh...

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