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Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

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31–40 of 376 posts

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#31
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not displacement (volume), but pressure from velocity: lift. The amount of lift by definition has to equal the weight of the aircraft at 1G.

... and the force of that lift on the plane has an equal and opposite on the air. A Heavier plane disturbs the air more.

[deleted]

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aviation thing (unfortunately, but it is what it is). You'll hear them referred to as Flight Levels or Angels as well (Angel 15 == 15,000feet).

Technically, the lowest flight level is FL200 or 20000'. Below that, altitudes are reported in feet. I'm not really familiar with the "angels" thing. I suspect that is specifically military. EDIT: there was a reply (since deleted) that indicated I may not be completely correct on stating FL200 as the lowest number used. I contend that I am still basically correct for North America, but there is some subtlety: https:/…

[deleted]

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#34

> one thousand feet above Are the imperial units of measurement an aviation thing, or an American thing, or a bit of both?

Aviation uses feet... and centigrade. The standard lapse rate that pilots use in the troposphere is -2C/1000'.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#35

Had to google around to understand wake turbulence. If I read the wiki correctly, it's basically a horizontal tornado that emanates from the wings. That would explain the rolling that the aircraft encountered. On another note, I fly every week for work, can't imagine rolling five times and engines losing power with a drop of 10k feet. That's absolutely insane. I've had engines lose power before, but it was quickly re…

[deleted]

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#36
post #22
post #7

For anyone interested, there are several great youtube videos[1-4] that show the wakes (the wingtip vortices in particular) created by various aircraft. This incident brings the Reduced Vertical Separation Minima (RVSM)[5] into question. Strategic Lateral Offset Procedure (SLOP)[6] can be used used to avoid such incidents. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ESmvyAmOs [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfY5ZQDzC5s…

Those wingtip and flap effects on 2 are gnarly! I assume that those occur near dewpoint? or some other atmospheric conditions?

If you recall Boyle's Law from high school physics - Temperature is proportional to pressure. Aircraft wings generate an intense area of low pressure over the top of the wing (which is what essentially generates the lift). This low pressure area is magnified when flaps and slats are deployed.

On a humid day, the lowering of the pressure over the wings can basically force the air temperature at that point to lower and reach dew point temperature, essentially forming temporary clouds that are whipped around by the moving air vortices.

Once the aircraft has passed that point, the temperature generally stabilises and conforms to surrounding air temperature, which usually dissipates the temporary condensation.

The 'twirly' bits on the wingtips is basically spillover from the high pressure under the wings to the low pressure above the wings, creating that mini tornado vortex. This is also the reason that many modern aircraft have those 'winglets' on the wingtips, to try and minimise these spillover vortices which can cause problems for trailing aircraft, as well as induce extra drag on the source aircraft.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#37

Had to google around to understand wake turbulence. If I read the wiki correctly, it's basically a horizontal tornado that emanates from the wings. That would explain the rolling that the aircraft encountered. On another note, I fly every week for work, can't imagine rolling five times and engines losing power with a drop of 10k feet. That's absolutely insane. I've had engines lose power before, but it was quickly re…

It's helpful to think of an aircraft's wake in two parts.

The wing is deflecting air downward to provide lift; this creates a volume of downward-moving air behind the aircraft.

There's higher pressure under the wing and lower pressure on top, so air from below tries to get above the wing at the wingtips. This causes circulatory motion, yielding wingtip vortices (see my top-level comment for some visualizations).

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#38

> one thousand feet above Are the imperial units of measurement an aviation thing, or an American thing, or a bit of both?

Mostly an aviation thing but descended from the fact that many early airplanes were American/British. IIRC only China, Russia and the DPRK use metric units. EDIT: ahahaha <3 HN commenters

I believe Russia uses FL measurements since a few years ago.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#39
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those wingtip and flap effects on 2 are gnarly! I assume that those occur near dewpoint? or some other atmospheric conditions?

If you recall Boyle's Law from high school physics - Temperature is proportional to pressure. Aircraft wings generate an intense area of low pressure over the top of the wing (which is what essentially generates the lift). This low pressure area is magnified when flaps and slats are deployed. On a humid day, the lowering of the pressure over the wings can basically force the air temperature at that point to lower and…

Wings generate lift primarily by deflecting air downward. There is an area of low pressure over the wing where air is taking a longer path than under the wing, but that is only responsible for a small fraction of the lift.

Re: Enroute Airbus A380 wake flips Challenger business jet upside down

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aviation thing (unfortunately, but it is what it is). You'll hear them referred to as Flight Levels or Angels as well (Angel 15 == 15,000feet).

Technically, the lowest flight level is FL200 or 20000'. Below that, altitudes are reported in feet. I'm not really familiar with the "angels" thing. I suspect that is specifically military. EDIT: there was a reply (since deleted) that indicated I may not be completely correct on stating FL200 as the lowest number used. I contend that I am still basically correct for North America, but there is some subtlety: https:/…

Technically, a flight level isn't a distance measurement at all. It's defined by atmospheric pressure, so that all planes use the same "ground" barometer by definition. The feet are expressed nominally relative to a standard sea level pressure.
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