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Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

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Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#31

Post by kodfodrasz »

mdekkers wrote: post #18
tekklloneer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft does extensive testing, not just on the "instruction set", but also the chipsets and surrounding ecosystems of the processor. It's annoying, and probably well within their ability to, but also not inexpensive.

also not inexpensive Isn't that what we pay them not insignificant amounts of money for?

You do not buy a perpetual support license with those OSes.

The cost of those operating systems was for a given list of compatible hardware. Windows 7 support ended, Windows 8 support ended, and Windows 8.1 is no longer sold, but still supported (so security patches still arrive).

Like it or not, I understand MS, as backporting and re-valdating anything is a huge cost. Been there, done that, although for embedded systems.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#32

Post by joelthelion »

sddfd wrote: post #17

I know it's not a popular opinion, but they do the right thing. Fragmentation of windows versions is a huge problem, and this approach is the lesser evil. I liked Windows 7 best (who doesn't?), but I'm using Windows 10 exclusively now because rolling release is the only viable model.

You know another way they could increase Windows 10 adoption? By making it better, not worse, than past offerings. Adware baked into my OS? No thanks.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#33

Post by cm2187 »

0x0 wrote: post #29
cm2187 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is the CPU not compatible? I was under the impression Microsoft artificially creates an incompatibility in a shameless move to push users to an ad based OS. I wasn't aware that any cpu instruction had been removed that would prevent Win7 from running normally.

If it can't run windows 7 like older processors can, then I would argue it is not compatible.

Only because Microsoft wrote a line of code that says if CPU is this model than do not run.

There is a big irony in Microsoft writing that sort of code given the efforts they have to go through to make applications with similar code (if OS version > 7 then do not run) run anyway by lying to the application about the windows version.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#34

Post by creshal »

mbreese wrote: post #12
Jedd wrote: post #2

> This error occurs because new processor generations require the latest Windows version for support. Can someone explain this better? It feels like the direction of 'support' has been inverted. I thought all these new CPU's were supersets of the instruction set of previous gen i386/amd64 processors?

It's not just Windows that has this issue. I recently had issues trying to add new Intel servers to an existing cluster. The new servers had a CPU that was too new to be supported by the older (CentOS 6 based) Linux OS that the cluster was running. Now, this particular problem was fixed in the kernel and pushed in the next point release by Red Hat. Unfortunately for us, it never made it to the upstream cluster OS ven…

Intel's Skylake processors caused kernel panics on earlier Linux versions, but that never affected Windows, and Microsoft still supports Skylake on 7/8.

And Kaby Lake is just a rebranded Skylake with higher clocks, with no hardware differences. So this is just Microsoft fucking over users.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#35

Post by CommanderData »

Yesterday I received a Gigabyte Brix i5 and wanted to run Windows 7. The process was painful.

The Brix has no USB 2.0 ports and no legacy USB in the bios - So keyboard and mouse were non functional. Presumably the ISO was built pre-USB 3.0 era. So I had to customize a untouched image with USB 3 drivers. Drivers had to be downloaded from Gigabytes website. All to learn that MS update doesn't work with Kaby Lake. Great.

Windows 10 setup was quick & easy.

Running 10 feels like I've lost control over my own OS. It updates when it wants and I have no way of turning it off. It is connected to numerous IPs I have no control over except to painfully block in hosts. Onedrive has no official uninstall option, Windows updates can no longer be postponed with 1607 and burns 15-20 mins productivity when restarting. There are a handful of services I don't need or want that I cannot disable (Wifi password sharing anybody?). It is the exact reason why I wanted to run Windows 7 in the first place.

To me it feels like another forceful tactic to push me to use Windows 10 for which I have no desire. Win 7 is supported till 2020 so don't choose for me but that doesn't matter.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#36

Post by CJefferson »

cm2187 wrote: post #33
0x0 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it can't run windows 7 like older processors can, then I would argue it is not compatible.

Only because Microsoft wrote a line of code that says if CPU is this model than do not run. There is a big irony in Microsoft writing that sort of code given the efforts they have to go through to make applications with similar code (if OS version > 7 then do not run) run anyway by lying to the application about the windows version.

No, it's because of missing drivers for the chipset.

Try running an old Linux or bsd kernel on these new chips -- it won't work either.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#37

Post by cm2187 »

CJefferson wrote: post #36
cm2187 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because Microsoft wrote a line of code that says if CPU is this model than do not run. There is a big irony in Microsoft writing that sort of code given the efforts they have to go through to make applications with similar code (if OS version > 7 then do not run) run anyway by lying to the application about the windows version.

No, it's because of missing drivers for the chipset. Try running an old Linux or bsd kernel on these new chips -- it won't work either.

But the drivers aren't part of the OS nor are they written by microsoft. I don't see why Microsoft would block the OS running on a particular generation of CPU.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#38

Post by seanp2k2 »

cm2187 wrote: post #33
0x0 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it can't run windows 7 like older processors can, then I would argue it is not compatible.

Only because Microsoft wrote a line of code that says if CPU is this model than do not run. There is a big irony in Microsoft writing that sort of code given the efforts they have to go through to make applications with similar code (if OS version > 7 then do not run) run anyway by lying to the application about the windows version.

Can't reply due to depth by sibling comment is correct; Ryzen even needs 4.10 to work right (e.g. http://www.pcworld.com/article/3176323/linux/kernel-410-give... )

See also: UEFI, >4GB of RAM, booting GPT disks, booting from PCI-E devices (or heck, even USB or CD, though that's been supported for a while now, but boot floppies used to be the norm), AHCI (old SATA stuff would emulate IDE). This is nothing new.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#39

Post by rincebrain »

This seems like they have enormous pressure from on high to make sure Windows 7 doesn't become another XP that they have to support for 15 years By Any Means Necessary.

If circumstances were different, I might even be applauding them for taking strong corrective actions against another XP doomsday scenario, or for moving to rolling release, both of which seem like great plans.

The reason I'm not is that Windows 10 feels unfinished and buggy to me. I gave it more than a chance, I used it as my primary OS for a year and change - but even after all that time, I still felt like I was fighting the OS far too frequently, and when my laptop had to go out for service, I threw Windows 7 on the older backup laptop.

So while I advise people who ask me to use Windows 10 if they can tolerate it, I can't say that I'm supportive of their efforts to forcibly move everyone onto their latest platform.

(I'm extremely familiar with running Linux, before anyone jumps in to recommend it - the Windows installs are for running Windows-native software that doesn't run well under Linux and for doing things like lots of RDPing that are extremely cumbersome inside Linux. All machines in this story dual-boot.)

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#40

Post by icebraining »

cm2187 wrote: post #37
CJefferson wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's because of missing drivers for the chipset. Try running an old Linux or bsd kernel on these new chips -- it won't work either.

But the drivers aren't part of the OS nor are they written by microsoft. I don't see why Microsoft would block the OS running on a particular generation of CPU.

If they know the vendor won't write them, it could be argued that they're just stopping the users from making a mistake.
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