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Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

bbc.com

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Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#31

Post by DaUR »

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #8
quotemstr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, human germline modification is still taboo here: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/scientists-argue-... It angers me that a misguided and stringent sense of ethics might slow the deployment of one of the most beneficial technologies ever conceived.

I agree with this, but not a popular opinion. Hence the down votes you are getting. Korea and China don't have the same memetic immune response to such ideas, injecting one's children with growth hormone in hope of increasing future job prospects, for example, is extremely common in Korea. I suspect embryo selection and generic engineering for increased IQ will take off in East Asia first. Then we will be forced to a…

Would it not be the same argument as GMOs, that we don't understand the consequences enough and therefore shouldn't be used? N. Taleb has quite a detailed critique of GMOs, I'm wondering if this is the same to that and if the same concerns apply.

Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#32

Post by akanet »

jfarlow wrote: post #30
jasonkolb wrote: post #27

Is this using CRISPR or some other method of editing the DNA?

This treatment does not use CRISPR. It involves the hollowed out and repurposed lentivirus (similar in kind to HIV)[1]. The virus keeps it's own viral 'insert-into-DNA' machinery, but is stripped of its replication machinery as well as the code for its physical shell. The insert-into-DNA machinery is further hijacked so it can insert nothing but the DNA that encodes for the new mutated hemoglobin (HBB [T87Q][2]) that…

This was a great little writeup, and I appreciate you taking the time to make it.

Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#33

Post by Moshe_Silnorin »

deepnotderp wrote: post #25
Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Genetic engineering works far, far better. We've already plucked the low hanging fruit of adequate nutrition, early education, salt iodization, and lead reduction. Anyway, those reduce mental retardation, they don't improve the baseline too much. And the Flynn effect looks to be slowing or reversing. 50 IQ points is huge. It's the difference between a burger flipper and a physics professor. The change to the wo…

Oh, and enjoy this one: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120214100719.h...

IQ test are a proxy for g. They are meaningless when applied to computers.

Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#35

Post by reimertz »

jfarlow wrote: post #30
jasonkolb wrote: post #27

Is this using CRISPR or some other method of editing the DNA?

This treatment does not use CRISPR. It involves the hollowed out and repurposed lentivirus (similar in kind to HIV)[1]. The virus keeps it's own viral 'insert-into-DNA' machinery, but is stripped of its replication machinery as well as the code for its physical shell. The insert-into-DNA machinery is further hijacked so it can insert nothing but the DNA that encodes for the new mutated hemoglobin (HBB [T87Q][2]) that…

Thank you for applying this to a mental model I can relate to. If there was an equivalent of Reddit gold, I would give you one.

Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#36

Post by ak39 »

jfarlow wrote: post #30
jasonkolb wrote: post #27

Is this using CRISPR or some other method of editing the DNA?

This treatment does not use CRISPR. It involves the hollowed out and repurposed lentivirus (similar in kind to HIV)[1]. The virus keeps it's own viral 'insert-into-DNA' machinery, but is stripped of its replication machinery as well as the code for its physical shell. The insert-into-DNA machinery is further hijacked so it can insert nothing but the DNA that encodes for the new mutated hemoglobin (HBB [T87Q][2]) that…

Thank you for this brilliant and detailed explanation showing the differences between CRIPR and the virus method! I haven't seen anyone explain the concept of viruses in the language of buffer overflows! Delightful.

Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#37

Post by blueblimp »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #22
Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Genetic engineering works far, far better. We've already plucked the low hanging fruit of adequate nutrition, early education, salt iodization, and lead reduction. Anyway, those reduce mental retardation, they don't improve the baseline too much. And the Flynn effect looks to be slowing or reversing. 50 IQ points is huge. It's the difference between a burger flipper and a physics professor. The change to the wo…

> Genetic engineering works far, far better. Um, do we know that? Unless I've missed some very interesting research that sounds like an extremely untested hypothesis.

It's untested in the sense that no genetic engineering has been done in humans, yes. (Unless you count gene therapy to cure disease, which is fairly different.)

However, there are some pretty strong reasons to think it would work, at least if we're just talking about improving within the typical range of human ability. Going to the extremes of existing ability and beyond is probably possible too, but there are more unexpected problems that could exist.

Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#38

Post by deepnotderp »

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #33
deepnotderp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and enjoy this one: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120214100719.h...

IQ test are a proxy for g. They are meaningless when applied to computers.

My point is that the IQ test is meaningless in measuring intelligence....

Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#39

Post by vidarh »

candiodari wrote: post #13
helloworld wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like this research involves somatic gene transfer, in which the change to the genome is not passed on to children: Gene transfer can be targeted to somatic (body) or germ (egg and sperm) cells. In somatic gene transfer the recipient's genome is changed, but the change is not passed on to the next generation. In germline gene transfer, the parents' egg and sperm cells are changed with the goal of passing on…

Isn't that dangerous ? This will allow him to have a normal life, which includes kids, which will need this (potentially very expensive) treatment as well. Wouldn't you, in order to not destroy the gene pool, want to restrict gene changes to both of those ? Either that or sterilize the patient to prevent transmission of lethal genes ? This treatment is VERY unfair to any children this guy fathers. Of course I do get…

Just carrying the sickle-cell trait is mostly neutral to highly advantageous depending on where you live, because it confers substantially increased resistance to Malaria.

This is how a trait that is so dangerous when expressed has managed to spread; in regions with endemic malaria, carriers have better survival chances and the difference is sufficient to make up for those who express it and end up dying young.

It is recessive - you need to inherit it from both parents to express it. So it is in fact entirely safe for this man to have children provided he has children with someone who is not a carrier, or ensure appropriate tests are taken during pregnancy.

Most people who carry this trait in developed countries today know about it, because the mechanism is very clear and they will usually know whether or not any of their family expressed the trait, and will have been tested to see if they inherited it. E.g. we had our son tested because his mother is a carrier, but because I am not we knew he could not have sickle cell disease.

My son is a carrier, but all that means is that like the guy in this article, he will want to make sure his partner is tested before having children, and to ensure to decide in advance what to do if both are carriers or if his partner has the disease (such as whether to have an abortion if tests show the child has the disease).

We can expect the number of people with this gene to drop over time because it is now so easy to avoid. But in the meantime a treatment would make a massive difference for those with the disease.

Re: Teenager's sickle cell reversed using a treatment to change his DNA

#40

Post by red75prime »

aptidude187 wrote: post #15

Total noob here, is this type of treatment going in the direction of something like in the movie gattaca? Would gene editing also help fully grown adults?

Real life gattaca would be quite boring. Protagonist would have failed practical aptitude tests or some such.
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