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Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

electrek.co

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Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#31

Post by revelation »

digi_owl wrote: post #3

Expect the numbers to drop right back down again in a few years. A major reason for people owning a EV, a law that was introduced back when Thinks were the big deal EV to have (yeah, right) that allowed EVs to use the bus lanes and not pay a toll, have been repealed. Note that it was only when Tesla made the EV comparable to a sportscar that it picked up in Norway. And that was because now the rich of the nation coul…

The timeline makes no sense. Clearly people buying a car in January 2017 would have been aware.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#32

Post by asgeirn »

digi_owl wrote: post #3

Expect the numbers to drop right back down again in a few years. A major reason for people owning a EV, a law that was introduced back when Thinks were the big deal EV to have (yeah, right) that allowed EVs to use the bus lanes and not pay a toll, have been repealed. Note that it was only when Tesla made the EV comparable to a sportscar that it picked up in Norway. And that was because now the rich of the nation coul…

EVs are currently more expensive than fossil counterparts, but that is projected to change in time as economies of scale start influencing the manufacturing costs.

Service and operational costs are already lower on EVs than fossils, and that is unlikely to change significantly.

For example, with current gasoline and electricity costs in Norway, powering an EV costs 10% of what a fossil cost per kilometer.

So incentives might be necessary right now, but not for much longer.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#33

Post by tomjen3 »

charlesdm wrote: post #9
PhilipA wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are thinking of Denmark.

Just checked: a Porsche GT4 (€88k in Belgium) costs €180k in Norway. So might be both Norway and Denmark. I have an honest question (and don't downvote me for this), but how do you enjoy life in Scandinavian countries? Everything seems to be taxed to hell: income, wealth, cars, alcohol, etc. Does that actually leave any room for fun that involves spending money? People don't need to be living in massive luxury and yo…

You know how Denmark is one of the best countries to cycle in? How so many danes commute to work on a bike? Sure some it has to do with nice lanes and beating traffic, but a lot of it comes from 170ish % tax on cars. I own a car, but it is tiny one that I paid more for than most US cars.

Mostly you have fun by doing things that are cheaper - you might play a table top game rather than go to the cinema, or watch the movie at home; eating out happens of course, but it is typically much rarer than in the US.

The upside to happiness is that the downside is somewhat limited - if I end up with no money at all I can go to the city and get Kontanthjælp (cash assistance, though that is transferred to the persons bank account), which will be paid out so long as I don't have a job and participates in certain required things that is supposedly going to get me a job. Unemployment insurance is paid out for two years, and would be about 60% of my income. Of course we also have tax paid health care, but while that is okay for immediate crisis (I can get a heart attack right now, have somebody call an ambulance, spend two weeks in hospital, and paid them nothing) it sucks for chronic issues because you will end up being placed on a waiting list, which means you could end up getting your treatment six months from now.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#34

Post by dokein »

svantana wrote: post #14
charlesdm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just checked: a Porsche GT4 (€88k in Belgium) costs €180k in Norway. So might be both Norway and Denmark. I have an honest question (and don't downvote me for this), but how do you enjoy life in Scandinavian countries? Everything seems to be taxed to hell: income, wealth, cars, alcohol, etc. Does that actually leave any room for fun that involves spending money? People don't need to be living in massive luxury and yo…

You do realize that taxes don't just disappear, right? Tax revenue pays for things like child care, health care, universities etc. That means the average consumer can spend more on frivolous things even if they are more expensive. So yeah us Scandinavians are living a pretty sweet life :)

Let's presume that 40% taxes are optimal for Sweden / Norway, and that the U.S. tax rate is 30% [A]. That does not mean that increasing the U.S. tax rate to 40% is optimal for the U.S. - do you think the current U.S. government, Donald Trump, military industrial complex, etc. should get more money to work with?

A. These numbers are made up

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#35

Post by _delirium »

simonz05 wrote: post #25
digi_owl wrote: post #3

Expect the numbers to drop right back down again in a few years. A major reason for people owning a EV, a law that was introduced back when Thinks were the big deal EV to have (yeah, right) that allowed EVs to use the bus lanes and not pay a toll, have been repealed. Note that it was only when Tesla made the EV comparable to a sportscar that it picked up in Norway. And that was because now the rich of the nation coul…

Tesla only sold 2 vehicles in Denmark in 2016, dropping from 2800 sold in 2015. This was after the Danish government added the regular registration tax to electric vehicles. That supports the commentators point of view. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&tl=en&u=h...

For those skeptical there could be such a big drop, useful background is that the Danish registration tax for new vehicles is 150% of the purchase price (with roughly the first €10k exempted). Previously it was 180% of the purchase price above €10k, but electric cars were exempted. An agreement was reached among several parties in 2015 to lower the overall rate from 180% to 150%, but to phase out the electric-car exemption. This hits Tesla's high-end cars especially hard, e.g. the model that used to cost €100k will end up costing €200k+ after tax, which obviously is attractive to many fewer buyers. Previously the €100k tax-exempt Tesla was effectively competing against gasoline models in the €40k pre-tax range.

I would expect a less dramatic decline for lower-priced electric cars, some of which do also have sales in Denmark, like the Nissan Leaf or Volkswagen e-uP, but I haven't found numbers.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#36

Post by alkonaut »

paganel wrote: post #21
interfixus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Growth may slow down, but why in the world would you expect numbers to drop? Do you consider that internal combustion stuff to somehow have advantages over contemporary technologies?

ICE vehicles are still considerably cheaper compared to EV. Show me a 10,000-15,000 euro electric hatchback that I'd be able to drive for 10+ years without having to purchase expensive batteries every 4-5 years and I'd buy it.

In Norway a Golf costs $50k, a family sedan $80k and the most powerful 7-series can be $300k. This is because ICE vehicles have huge taxes in Norway.

A pure EV basically gets a 50% tax cut, which can be $100k if you were looking at a comparable ICE car to the Model S.

So in Norway the opposite is true "ICE vehicles are considerably more expensive".

You can also ask yourself this: what value you get for your money on a given budget if you buy a Golf at $50k which is half taxes, versus a Bolt at a similar price with almost none of it being tax? I'd choose the Bolt any day.

Obviously none of this translates to anywhere else. It's a lot easier to give a massive tax break if you had a huge tax initially, than it would be for e.g the US to slap on a 20% tax on new ICE vehicles. (Unless of course they are made in Mexico in which case it's apparently easy).

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#37

Post by kalleboo »

simonz05 wrote: post #25
digi_owl wrote: post #3

Expect the numbers to drop right back down again in a few years. A major reason for people owning a EV, a law that was introduced back when Thinks were the big deal EV to have (yeah, right) that allowed EVs to use the bus lanes and not pay a toll, have been repealed. Note that it was only when Tesla made the EV comparable to a sportscar that it picked up in Norway. And that was because now the rich of the nation coul…

Tesla only sold 2 vehicles in Denmark in 2016, dropping from 2800 sold in 2015. This was after the Danish government added the regular registration tax to electric vehicles. That supports the commentators point of view. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&tl=en&u=h...

That article is from March 2016, so it was 2 cars sold by March. Would be interesting to see final numbers (12 cars?)

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#38

Post by oblio »

dokein wrote: post #34
svantana wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that taxes don't just disappear, right? Tax revenue pays for things like child care, health care, universities etc. That means the average consumer can spend more on frivolous things even if they are more expensive. So yeah us Scandinavians are living a pretty sweet life :)

Let's presume that 40% taxes are optimal for Sweden / Norway, and that the U.S. tax rate is 30% [A]. That does not mean that increasing the U.S. tax rate to 40% is optimal for the U.S. - do you think the current U.S. government, Donald Trump, military industrial complex, etc. should get more money to work with? A. These numbers are made up

I think his point is that instead of giving the government less money you should work on making sure that the government actually does the right thing with the money it gets.

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#39

Post by syncordie »

paganel wrote: post #21
interfixus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Growth may slow down, but why in the world would you expect numbers to drop? Do you consider that internal combustion stuff to somehow have advantages over contemporary technologies?

ICE vehicles are still considerably cheaper compared to EV. Show me a 10,000-15,000 euro electric hatchback that I'd be able to drive for 10+ years without having to purchase expensive batteries every 4-5 years and I'd buy it.

The Mahindra e2o Plus is priced between 10-15K USD (but currently only available in India I think) https://www.mahindrae2oplus.com/

I've owned an older model for 4+ years now. I haven't seen any drop in battery performance yet and the company says the battery should last 8+ years without problems. I can believe that based on my experience.

The older model is available in the UK. https://mahindrauk.com

Re: Norway: 37% of new vehicles sold in January were electric

#40

Post by kalleboo »

frik wrote: post #22

How many new power plants are planned? Or do many houses have their own photovoltaic. Optimally, one has a house with 10+KW/H photovoltaic panels at home, an battery storage and an electric car. The battery storage is needed, as one is usually away at work when the sun is shining. And if you deliver the eletricity to the grid provider you get little money, so it would make sense to use the power yourself or store it…

PV in Norway sounds like a bad joke. The northern parts get zero daylight hours for 2 weeks in midwinter.
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