Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable • Hacker News Board

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#31

Post by smallgovt » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 8:48 PM UTC

phil21 wrote: post #29

smallgovt wrote: post #8

I find it interesting that there's a general undertone that CL is being "honorable" by choosing to not make more profit. I have no doubt Craig's intentions were honorable, but in reality, his refusal to make money to fund the site's innovation is hurting society. His users are screaming "TAKE MY MONEY AND MAKE THE SITE (MY LIFE) BETTER", but he refuses to do so and everyone is worse off because of it! In a way, it's…

Now it's lazy and selfish to not take every ounce of surplus you can out of a market? Some folks just want to lay back and enjoy life. If I were Craig I'd sit on that goldmine for the rest of my life - most likely it will finance a very decent lifestyle until the day he dies. Why bother with the stress of expanding and doing what everyone else is doing? I'm completely convinced that strategy makes for miserable peopl…

This is sort of my point...

Don't get me wrong, he has every right to run his business in any way he so desires. And, who am I to pass judgement on him for this?

I'm just saying that we shouldn't see this sort of decision making as 'honorable' or 'selfless' in any sense. It's the opposite, in a way.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#32

Post by pcwalton » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 8:50 PM UTC

grapevines wrote: post #3

Network effect, reliability, free, anonymous, ability to run without JavaScript. If Craigslist decided to modernize today, they could potentially disrupt the state of things on the internet. Facebook is trying to move in on their territory for sure. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. If a new-kid-on-the-block could offer anonymity, reliability, and free regional market based transactions, with preferably integra…

> ability to run without JavaScript

I highly doubt more than 1% of Craigslist's userbase cares about this. The reasons are simple: first mover advantage and network effects.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#33

Post by stephancoral » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 8:52 PM UTC

37 wrote: post #20

grapevines wrote: post #3

Network effect, reliability, free, anonymous, ability to run without JavaScript. If Craigslist decided to modernize today, they could potentially disrupt the state of things on the internet. Facebook is trying to move in on their territory for sure. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. If a new-kid-on-the-block could offer anonymity, reliability, and free regional market based transactions, with preferably integra…

>If Craigslist decided to modernize today I misread this as "decided to monetize today" and interpreted an IPO. Has Craigslist ever thought about this? Any thoughts?

Craigslist has nearly $300 million in profit and only around 30 employees.

Why on earth would they ever want to go public?

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#34

Post by ulkram » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 8:54 PM UTC

grapevines wrote: post #3

Network effect, reliability, free, anonymous, ability to run without JavaScript. If Craigslist decided to modernize today, they could potentially disrupt the state of things on the internet. Facebook is trying to move in on their territory for sure. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. If a new-kid-on-the-block could offer anonymity, reliability, and free regional market based transactions, with preferably integra…

I'm not sure anonymous is always a good thing for CL. When I'm buying/selling stuff on CL, I wish I had more info on who I'm dealing with.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#35

Post by wfn » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

laurentdc wrote: post #17

grapevines wrote: post #3

Network effect, reliability, free, anonymous, ability to run without JavaScript. If Craigslist decided to modernize today, they could potentially disrupt the state of things on the internet. Facebook is trying to move in on their territory for sure. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. If a new-kid-on-the-block could offer anonymity, reliability, and free regional market based transactions, with preferably integra…

> ability to run without JavaScript. Genuinely asking - is that still an important quality as of today?

It certainly is for some (e.g. me and some people I know). I think quite a few people get pissed off at websites which do not have live content (it's live if it can't be cached; Craigslist content, e.g., can be cached) but require JS just to render the basic text. It doesn't help if those sites also make 100+ requests. And yes, some folks still prefer text-based browsers when possible. :) I do realize the latter make up quite a small percentage only, though...

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#36

Post by skierkyles » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

jamisteven wrote: post #28

codingdave wrote: post #7

It isn't universal, though. One of the things you find if you move to Utah is, "Don't bother with Craigslist." I mean, it exists here. It gets some use. But most people use the online classifieds from ksl.com, the local TV station. At least, I think it is a TV station. I've never watched it, but everyone uses their online classifieds instead of craigslist. Their site also is ugly, and full of difficult buyers and poo…

I just checked salt lake city utah CL and I think your wrong, in comparison to where i live in Nashville there 1k less cars for sale in Utah than in Nashville, still a ton of stuff for sale though. Every state I have lived in there has been a CL with very high use. Florida, California, Washington, and Tennessee, all use CL.

Subjectively, I've heard many people say exactly what codingdave said above. I'd say, at a minimum, KSL has a bigger mindshare then CL in the SLC area.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#37

Post by bredren » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

phil21 wrote: post #29

smallgovt wrote: post #8

I find it interesting that there's a general undertone that CL is being "honorable" by choosing to not make more profit. I have no doubt Craig's intentions were honorable, but in reality, his refusal to make money to fund the site's innovation is hurting society. His users are screaming "TAKE MY MONEY AND MAKE THE SITE (MY LIFE) BETTER", but he refuses to do so and everyone is worse off because of it! In a way, it's…

Now it's lazy and selfish to not take every ounce of surplus you can out of a market? Some folks just want to lay back and enjoy life. If I were Craig I'd sit on that goldmine for the rest of my life - most likely it will finance a very decent lifestyle until the day he dies. Why bother with the stress of expanding and doing what everyone else is doing? I'm completely convinced that strategy makes for miserable peopl…

The problem is not that CL isn't squeezing out every ounce revenue.

The problem with the benevolent dictator at Craigslist is his kingdom is so big and he does nothing to advance it.

It would not be hard to offer minor but relatively simple identity validation for users. Or dabble with the ability to create trust networks or reputation. Or offer basic mechanisms for safe transactional payments. Or an official mobile app that worked well. Or a hundred other things that would improve lives.

There is no question craigslist gets a "job well done" but there is a great argument that if they have a choke hold on the online classifieds market they should offer increased value over time.

Craigslist reminds me of the IRS. Sure, you can fumble your way through filing your taxes with us, but why would you do that when TurboTax can do it better. Except there is no alternative.

I think Craigslist is acting more like the old newspaper classifieds they disrupted if anything.

Despite this article's focus on a couple companies, there are other startups getting major traction in used goods space apart from Facebook.

If CL loses significant market share, I hope they don't go trying then to revamp the site. Because it would only be that much more obvious how much they held back from their users for so long.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#38

Post by codingdave » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

jamisteven wrote: post #28

codingdave wrote: post #7

It isn't universal, though. One of the things you find if you move to Utah is, "Don't bother with Craigslist." I mean, it exists here. It gets some use. But most people use the online classifieds from ksl.com, the local TV station. At least, I think it is a TV station. I've never watched it, but everyone uses their online classifieds instead of craigslist. Their site also is ugly, and full of difficult buyers and poo…

I just checked salt lake city utah CL and I think your wrong, in comparison to where i live in Nashville there 1k less cars for sale in Utah than in Nashville, still a ton of stuff for sale though. Every state I have lived in there has been a CL with very high use. Florida, California, Washington, and Tennessee, all use CL.

You might want to take your data analysis one step farther and actually check how many cars are for sale on KSL.com. Compared to the 1,951 on Salt Lake's Craigslist, KSL.com has over 12,000. (over 67,000 if you include the dealership ads).

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#39

Post by johnbender » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

pcwalton wrote: post #32

grapevines wrote: post #3

Network effect, reliability, free, anonymous, ability to run without JavaScript. If Craigslist decided to modernize today, they could potentially disrupt the state of things on the internet. Facebook is trying to move in on their territory for sure. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. If a new-kid-on-the-block could offer anonymity, reliability, and free regional market based transactions, with preferably integra…

> ability to run without JavaScript I highly doubt more than 1% of Craigslist's userbase cares about this. The reasons are simple: first mover advantage and network effects.

I read this (possibly wrongly) to be a proxy for "unencumbered page load speed" which is a feature that many users value beyond the 1% who care about noscript.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#40

Post by quadrangle » Tue, Feb 14, 2017, 9:04 PM UTC

csharpminor wrote: post #19

I actually think that Craigslist will come to see tough competition from Facebook Marketplace. Facebook has the existing user base to get a network effect, has a much better UI, notifications, and solves for the worry of meeting someone who is a complete unknown. Will be interesting to see if Facebook chips away at the Craigslist user-base over the next few years.

You're probably right, but that would be tragic.