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Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

dev.generals.io

31–40 of 49 posts

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#31
post #29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be honest, this is not possible.

Yeah but they could try and it would be fun to watch. The point I was implicitly making is that setting up a new server for bots and declaring "no bots allowed" on the main servers is not quite enough.

We have some naive heuristics to try to detect bot movements (low ping, not many queued moves, moves every turn, etc) in the works, some of which are already implemented to try to reduce the numbers of bots on the main ladders. It's a tiny bit tricky to do however, most of the methods are still just going through testing.

We're hoping that people consider the reason we're trying to limit their access to the main ladders and do the honourable thing of keeping the bots in the bot ladder. It's slightly harder than just changing the URL, which we hope will help dissuade individuals.

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#32

Are all game replays since inception stored in a database? It would be great if you could release one grand zip file to the public that could then be hosted on S3. Even a subset of say all games of the top 200 FFA players would make an interesting training data set!

Already released! You can see the page explaining it here:

http://dev.generals.io/replays

It contains 200,000 games of varying levels, so should hopefully make good training data.

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#33
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but they could try and it would be fun to watch. The point I was implicitly making is that setting up a new server for bots and declaring "no bots allowed" on the main servers is not quite enough.

We have some naive heuristics to try to detect bot movements (low ping, not many queued moves, moves every turn, etc) in the works, some of which are already implemented to try to reduce the numbers of bots on the main ladders. It's a tiny bit tricky to do however, most of the methods are still just going through testing. We're hoping that people consider the reason we're trying to limit their access to the main ladd…

Neural nets will behave pretty human like. Now that you've told everyone, we can start building bots that do these things.

(I wasn't using a bot if it wasn't clear.)

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#34
post #16

Do bots watch ads? For the last several weeks I've been an avid generals player. For awhile I was even ranked #7 on the FFA ladder. And I have to say that this is the second change in about a week that has left me confused about who generals is trying to appeal to. Maybe the bots will be fun for humans to play against but I doubt it. Maybe this will be a benign change and the quality of the bots that play generals on…

I think I'd like to point out two very important points you may be missing: 1. This was implemented directly to combat the prevalence of bots on the EU & NA servers (and the annoyance some players were facing when they were just playing AIs all the time), where you're now not allowed to bot on. Players have the option of choosing whether or not they wish to play against bots, but if they wish not to they can still pl…

I debated whether to respond to your comment at all. Let me first say that I wish you all the best and hope for your continued success. However, some of what you said feels like you're asserting that "up" is in fact "down". So let me first establish my bona fides with this screenshot that was taken on the 25 of last month:

http://imgur.com/a/uv1C6

so you can believe me when I say that I was a pretty good player that spent a lot of time playing your game.

> This was implemented directly to combat the prevalence of bots on the EU & NA servers (and the annoyance some players were facing when they were just playing AIs all the time), where you're now not allowed to bot on. Players have the option of choosing whether or not they wish to play against bots, but if they wish not to they can still play on the NA and EU servers.

Respectfully, yours is not the first game to have these types of problems. People grief and cheat in every online game where it's possible. Creating bot-only servers will not curtail bot use on non-bot servers. It will instead give people who grief and cheat stronger bots that they can pull down from github or wherever and adapt to play on non-bot servers.

They only thing that will stop people from using bots in bot free zones are technological countermeasures. Captchas being the classic example of such technology.

> If you dislike the new movement settings, you are able to disable them in the options menu.

That fact that you suggest this as a way to address my concerns makes me wonder if you actually play your game outside of testing it to see if a new feature works.

When you changed the way players can move you not only changed how I play the game but how everyone else plays against me. Essentially, with this latest revision you've created a substantially different game. Using the option to limit how I move without it changing how my opponent's move would only serve to put me at a disadvantage. It would not roll back the clock to the make the game be like the old game I liked.

All of the tactical nuance that the game used to have was based on timing and multitasking. High level gameplay steamed from getting inside your opponent's head and trying to force them into mistakes. The key to doing that was to realize that if an opponent is trying one thing they most likely aren't doing something else. If you could get them to focus on the wrong thing you gained the advantage. In my opinion the old game had a great balance between strategy and execution. If you weren't good at both you couldn't win. The new control scheme throws that particular balance out window. It's hard to describe in words because it's a million little differences that add up to a whole but suffice it to say that games now to me feel less like a sword fight and more like people running at each other with pots on their heads.

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#35
post #5

This might revive my interest in Generals, as I found it a mixture of boring and excitingly stressful when I played by hand. However, because Generals is an RTS, bots might have a pretty steep advantage (although movements take a good bit of time, so it's not as bad as it could be). Does anybody know how bad this is in real play?

Everyone is server-capped at 2 moves per second, and bots will also be subject to networking conditions (ping, lag spikes) just as players are since bots are hosted by their creators.

Yeah but you can also host your bot in a datacentre which doesnt have the same reliability issues as residential internet.

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#36

I started making a bot last night but it keep getting disconnected in the first 10ish rounds. Anyone else see this and resolve it?

Could you give us some details on this? Like which web socket library you used, the technology you used, etc? If you copy & paste the example bot verbatim, does that work for over 10 rounds? As far as I know we've got tens of bots working at the moment and I haven't heard this strange problem from anyone else.

I don't have the code handy at the moment but I was using ruby with this socket.io gem 'socket.io-client-simple'

I was able to connect, join a game, send chat messages, just couldn't stay connected.

I basically just converted the JS tutorial on the site to ruby style.

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#38
post #20
post #16

Do bots watch ads? For the last several weeks I've been an avid generals player. For awhile I was even ranked #7 on the FFA ladder. And I have to say that this is the second change in about a week that has left me confused about who generals is trying to appeal to. Maybe the bots will be fun for humans to play against but I doubt it. Maybe this will be a benign change and the quality of the bots that play generals on…

> the recent changes to the movement scheme What was changed? I don't remember how the game worked when I first tried it.

Formerly, you could only queue moves in territory you owned. Now, you can queue anywhere.

It takes away a key advantage in obtaining territory.

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'd like to point out two very important points you may be missing: 1. This was implemented directly to combat the prevalence of bots on the EU & NA servers (and the annoyance some players were facing when they were just playing AIs all the time), where you're now not allowed to bot on. Players have the option of choosing whether or not they wish to play against bots, but if they wish not to they can still pl…

I debated whether to respond to your comment at all. Let me first say that I wish you all the best and hope for your continued success. However, some of what you said feels like you're asserting that "up" is in fact "down". So let me first establish my bona fides with this screenshot that was taken on the 25 of last month: http://imgur.com/a/uv1C6 so you can believe me when I say that I was a pretty good player that…

Another avid player here, also ranked in the top 10 for a decent amount of time, now in the mid one hundreds.

I think the primary difference is now that moves can be infinitely queued, whereas in the past moving into an enemy's territory took time and concentration. Now, if I know where enemy cities are, I can order them to be attacked within a few seconds. Previously players were required to constantly expend time and concentration on each move, making multitasking and balancing a much more fine dance.

The new system tends to favor troop numbers above all, prioritizing strength over strategy. Before the update, if I had 2/3rds the troops of an average opponent by the time an 8v8 was down to a 1v1, I had about a 50% chance of winning. Now it's _maybe_ a 10% chance.

Re: Generals.io Bot API: Build bots to play against humans

#40
post #16

Do bots watch ads? For the last several weeks I've been an avid generals player. For awhile I was even ranked #7 on the FFA ladder. And I have to say that this is the second change in about a week that has left me confused about who generals is trying to appeal to. Maybe the bots will be fun for humans to play against but I doubt it. Maybe this will be a benign change and the quality of the bots that play generals on…

I think everyone agrees (even if unconsciously) with your feelings. Most players had a defense advantage in movement speed before, but no longer. Reduced security and other implications favor large troops and rush strategies. Which leaves traditional strategies you mentioned less effective. The problem is, war, in the real world almost always has some kind of defensive advantage. So the cohesion of the General narrative was disrupted negatively as this core expectation is broken. My 2 cents even if non-specific, because I think this is the right perspective for highest-level analysis. I don't necessarily feel the new change is bad. But it changes game mechanics to favor play-styles where do not tell a cohesive story.

My example is just anecdotal. I used to play and, in just 300 moves was able to tell a full story. Of how I advanced, beat a certain enemy through an interesting battle. How I went into unknown territory and was surprised by what I found. There really was a cohesive narrative and nice story-telling in the previous version. This is what made the game fun, fundamentally. Mini stories of kingdoms locked in war, with interesting battles.

Now, the stories are not told well. Since I am queuing constantly, I am not even paying attention to where my general is most of the time. I am half-blind charging on my bull hoping I run over a general. And likewise, if I am on the defensive there is nothing to do but hope the huge army does not snake through and hit my general. The sense of a story was largely destroyed.

And that's why I think the game is less fun now, even if it is not so obvious why.

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