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Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

nytimes.com

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Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#31

Post by mrxd »

kirse wrote: post #13

Dr. James expects John Henryism can now be seen across Western democracies, wherever people are inculcated with a Protestant sense of personal responsibility and belief in self-reliance. This is garbage. What actually is the source of all this unneeded suffering is when people choose to believe the all-pervasive Western media, movie, and music refrain that success is measured by material wealth and prosperity. The Pr…

> The Protestant work ethic is centered on the notion that work is a holy vocation

The Protestant work ethic emerged from the Calvinist doctrine of predestination (who is saved and damned is decided by God in advance) and the belief that accumulating material wealth was a sign of having been chosen by God for salvation.

> when people choose to believe the all-pervasive Western media, movie, and music refrain that success is measured by material wealth

And yet the US is one of the least materialistic countries in the developed world:

https://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=635...

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#32

Post by renlo »

Isn't it just that people who are 'more diligent and [tend] to strive for success' tax their bodies more by working harder? Whereas 'lazier' people tend to give their bodies more time to recuperate? Adversity isn't the cause; it's working to overcome adversity. Similarly, being rich doesn't make one healther; being rich gives one more access to healthcare and the means to take time off of work. I think the distinction is important.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#33

Post by trustfundbaby »

renlo wrote: post #32

Isn't it just that people who are 'more diligent and [tend] to strive for success' tax their bodies more by working harder? Whereas 'lazier' people tend to give their bodies more time to recuperate? Adversity isn't the cause; it's working to overcome adversity. Similarly, being rich doesn't make one healther; being rich gives one more access to healthcare and the means to take time off of work. I think the distinctio…

True, but this is the telling bit

> The focus on black adolescents is significant. In much of this research, white Americans appeared somehow to be immune to the negative health effects that accompany relentless striving. As Dr. Brody put it when telling me about the Pittsburgh study, “We found this for black persons from disadvantaged backgrounds, but not white persons.”

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#34

Post by hcho3 »

kirse wrote: post #13

Dr. James expects John Henryism can now be seen across Western democracies, wherever people are inculcated with a Protestant sense of personal responsibility and belief in self-reliance. This is garbage. What actually is the source of all this unneeded suffering is when people choose to believe the all-pervasive Western media, movie, and music refrain that success is measured by material wealth and prosperity. The Pr…

Thanks for pointing out a common misconception of the Protestant ethics. In fact, there has been many books written about the incompatibility between "American Dream" and Protestant faith. Here's one for start: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Taking-Faith-American-Dream/d...

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#36

Post by throwanem »

dstaten wrote: post #27
kirse wrote: post #13

Dr. James expects John Henryism can now be seen across Western democracies, wherever people are inculcated with a Protestant sense of personal responsibility and belief in self-reliance. This is garbage. What actually is the source of all this unneeded suffering is when people choose to believe the all-pervasive Western media, movie, and music refrain that success is measured by material wealth and prosperity. The Pr…

This is more God/Bible than I think I've ever seen on HN

One tends to hesitate.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#37

Post by 131012 »

divbit wrote: post #2

TLDR (or at least what I took from it): Too much adversity produces stress that is bad for the body in that it ages your immune system much faster than it should. Sounds plausible.

It is slightly more than adversity, as anyone can lose someone important or their job, suffer from brain trauma, etc. Upward mobility implies understanding and navigating through different sets of social rules and this can be extremely stressful and implies what sociologists call anomie.

The sociological explanation of this phenomenon is almost a hundred years old. You can read it here: Merton, Robert K. (October 1938). "Social Structure and Anomie". American Sociological Review. 3 (5): 672–682.

Sorry for the paywall, but you "hackers" know how to circumvent it, right?

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#38

Post by adventured »

jjawssd wrote: post #20
oculusthrift wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's the cocaine that makes him seem unperturbed

He would be dead by now if he did coke because coke accelerates cellular mechanisms for aging For example, cocaine and alcohol addiction are associated with robust alterations in sleep architecture, including disturbances in slow-wave sleep and rapid eye movement (REM), which has implications for several age-related diseases, since sleep contributes to the homeostatic regulation of the neuroendocrine and immune syste…

This is a certainty. Based on the damage cocaine causes, had Trump been a long-term user of cocaine, he'd have likely died 10 or 20 years ago. I say long-term, because based on his status in the late 1970s and 1980s, it would be far more likely that were he a user, he'd have started back then and continued to use. Very unlikely he would still be walking around and performing as well as he is at 70.

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#39

Post by morugin »

kirse wrote: post #13

Dr. James expects John Henryism can now be seen across Western democracies, wherever people are inculcated with a Protestant sense of personal responsibility and belief in self-reliance. This is garbage. What actually is the source of all this unneeded suffering is when people choose to believe the all-pervasive Western media, movie, and music refrain that success is measured by material wealth and prosperity. The Pr…

The way I understand it, wealth is a part of the protestant work ethic.

God blesses the chosen with wealth, therefore you work hard to have wealth (because you want to be a chosen one).

Max Weber, right?

Re: Succeeding Against the Odds Can Make You Sick

#40

Post by autokad »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #33
renlo wrote: post #32

Isn't it just that people who are 'more diligent and [tend] to strive for success' tax their bodies more by working harder? Whereas 'lazier' people tend to give their bodies more time to recuperate? Adversity isn't the cause; it's working to overcome adversity. Similarly, being rich doesn't make one healther; being rich gives one more access to healthcare and the means to take time off of work. I think the distinctio…

True, but this is the telling bit > The focus on black adolescents is significant. In much of this research, white Americans appeared somehow to be immune to the negative health effects that accompany relentless striving. As Dr. Brody put it when telling me about the Pittsburgh study, “We found this for black persons from disadvantaged backgrounds, but not white persons.”

I am not convinced.

they are using a person's ability to get a cold (by having it basically sprayed in their face) as their operational definition of health.

to me this is extremely flawed. not only does past exposure play a huge role, so does DNA, let alone other behavioral habits that may separate the groups beyond just 'the system is against them'.

i dont know anything about who was selected in the Pittsburgh study, but being from that area I know there is huge opportunity for ethnic selection bias even within the 'white' group.

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