A bit off-topic, but what font is used in the video/animated GIF?
Announcing Pipenv
31–40 of 171 posts
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#32This is great, but sometimes I think that python needs a new package manager from scratch instead of more tools trying to mix and mash a bunch of flawed tools together in a way that's palatable by most of us. Python packaging sucks, the whole lot of it. Maybe I'm just spoiled by rust and elixir, but setuptools, distutils, pip, ez_install, all of it is really subpar. But of course everything uses pypi and pip now, so…
Just curious, what aspects of pip/virtualenv specifically do you find subpar in comparison to other languages' package managers.
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#33I always wonder if this could be done once and for all languages, instead of Ruby making bundler, Haskell Cabal sandboxes or stack, Perl Brew, etc. Is this where Nix is going?
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#34I always wonder if this could be done once and for all languages, instead of Ruby making bundler, Haskell Cabal sandboxes or stack, Perl Brew, etc. Is this where Nix is going?
I don't know, different languages and environments need different things. I'm not sure that "package management" is as generic as it seems at first glance.
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#35This is great, but sometimes I think that python needs a new package manager from scratch instead of more tools trying to mix and mash a bunch of flawed tools together in a way that's palatable by most of us. Python packaging sucks, the whole lot of it. Maybe I'm just spoiled by rust and elixir, but setuptools, distutils, pip, ez_install, all of it is really subpar. But of course everything uses pypi and pip now, so…
I strongly agree but this can work now and is a big improvement over what we currently have. So while I would literally pay to see somebody work on a better package manager (which can generate exe, deb and use a conf file indead of .py), this is a good filler.
Why should it generate a deb file? How is this useful on anything but Debian based systems?
Why exe? How do you package libraries using this new tool you are envisioning?
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#36This is great, but sometimes I think that python needs a new package manager from scratch instead of more tools trying to mix and mash a bunch of flawed tools together in a way that's palatable by most of us. Python packaging sucks, the whole lot of it. Maybe I'm just spoiled by rust and elixir, but setuptools, distutils, pip, ez_install, all of it is really subpar. But of course everything uses pypi and pip now, so…
I think python packaging has gotten LOTS better in the last few years. I find it quite pleasurable to use these days.
From binary wheels (including on different linux architectures), to things like local caching of packages (taking LOTS of load off the main servers). To the organisation github of pypa [0], to `python -m venv` working.
Also lots of work around standardising things in peps, and writing documentation for people.
I would like to applaud all the hard work people have done over the years on python packaging. It really is quite nice these days, and I look forward to all the improvements coming up (like pipenv!).
I'd suggest people checkout fades [1] (for running scripts and automatically downloading dependencies in a venv), as well as conda [2] the alternative package manager.
[1] https://fades.readthedocs.io/en/release-5/readme.html#what-d...
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I strongly agree but this can work now and is a big improvement over what we currently have. So while I would literally pay to see somebody work on a better package manager (which can generate exe, deb and use a conf file indead of .py), this is a good filler.
Why should it generate a deb file? How is this useful on anything but Debian based systems? Why exe? How do you package libraries using this new tool you are envisioning?
You do package lib the same way as before, although cargo like dependency handling would be a nice thing. Especially for upgrades.
But a good package manager should ALSO allow you to produce a:
- a stand alone executable for most OS.
- a standard package for major OS (msi, deb, snap, rpm, dmg, etc).
Doing that right now with Python requires you to setup stuff like nuikta and the like. It works but it's much harder than it should be.
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#38normally I use virtualenvwrapper and that makes a virtualenv directory for all virtualenvs you create with it. before that, I always create my projects' venvs inside my project hierarchy.
I had a dilemma about it. But after all, you can not move your venv directory unless you use `--relocatable` option. So, anyone have a strong argument about creating venvs inside your project directory?
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#39This is great, but sometimes I think that python needs a new package manager from scratch instead of more tools trying to mix and mash a bunch of flawed tools together in a way that's palatable by most of us. Python packaging sucks, the whole lot of it. Maybe I'm just spoiled by rust and elixir, but setuptools, distutils, pip, ez_install, all of it is really subpar. But of course everything uses pypi and pip now, so…
Okay - maybe I'm missing something, but pip is the only Python package manager I've ever used. And it's basically "pip install xxx", "pip install --upgrade xxx", "pip show xxx", "pip list", "pip uninstall xxx"
I'm curious what I've been missing about pip that makes it problematic - I've never used the other tools you mentioned (setuptools/distutils/ez_install) - so I can't comment on them, but, on the flip side, I've never had to use them, so maybe my requirements are somewhat more simple than yours.
Re: Announcing Pipenv
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should it generate a deb file? How is this useful on anything but Debian based systems? Why exe? How do you package libraries using this new tool you are envisioning?
You do package lib the same way as before, although cargo like dependency handling would be a nice thing. Especially for upgrades. But a good package manager should ALSO allow you to produce a: - a stand alone executable for most OS. - a standard package for major OS (msi, deb, snap, rpm, dmg, etc). Doing that right now with Python requires you to setup stuff like nuikta and the like. It works but it's much harder th…
debhelper pretty much automates the process of packaging any standard distutils or setuptools package, Red Hat distributions have templates for packaging Python libraries as well (and rpmdev-newspec python-mypackage will automatically generate an appropriate .spec file).
Windows and OS X are always a pain in the ass, but that's more an issue of the platforms lacking in package management than anything else.