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Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

blog.caranddriver.com

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Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#31

Post by Clubber »

redsummer wrote: post #28

A lot of people think the Amish are against technology. In fact, they carefully consider the technology's effect on themselves and their community. Will it really help, or is it just a new thing which will cause unintended consequences? For instance, some Amish groups accepted cars, and their community disappeared - when anyone can drive anywhere the community collapsed. Now there are no Amish who allow cars. The sam…

>In fact, technology does not improve the human condition in most cases. It erodes it.

I agree with what you said but think this is a little strong of a statement. I guess it depends on what you mean by technology. I'd rather live today than in the 1900s because of medical technology alone.

It's like anything. Technology just is. It's what people with free will do with it that can be harmful or helpful.

With that said, I agree we should be more diligent to at least be aware of how technology is affecting us personally, then act accordingly.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#32

Post by chiaro »

redsummer wrote: post #28

A lot of people think the Amish are against technology. In fact, they carefully consider the technology's effect on themselves and their community. Will it really help, or is it just a new thing which will cause unintended consequences? For instance, some Amish groups accepted cars, and their community disappeared - when anyone can drive anywhere the community collapsed. Now there are no Amish who allow cars. The sam…

Cars give freedom to those who don't have it. It's easy to have a rosy pastoral view of the Amish, but the reality is grim for many young women subjugated to that culture. The ability for such people to see that the outside world can be far less harsh than the one they are used to will necessarily (and in my opinion should) lead to the collapse of those communities.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#33

Post by redsummer »

chiaro wrote: post #32
redsummer wrote: post #28

A lot of people think the Amish are against technology. In fact, they carefully consider the technology's effect on themselves and their community. Will it really help, or is it just a new thing which will cause unintended consequences? For instance, some Amish groups accepted cars, and their community disappeared - when anyone can drive anywhere the community collapsed. Now there are no Amish who allow cars. The sam…

Cars give freedom to those who don't have it. It's easy to have a rosy pastoral view of the Amish, but the reality is grim for many young women subjugated to that culture. The ability for such people to see that the outside world can be far less harsh than the one they are used to will necessarily (and in my opinion should ) lead to the collapse of those communities.

The Amish are happier than almost all Americans: http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2007/03/16/happiness-wealth-a...

You want those communities to collapse, because you see no other solutions except more tech, more greed, more 'progress'. That's the hamster wheel you've been given. What other life could there be?

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#34

Post by dreamcompiler »

dzdt wrote: post #27

The Amish attitude towards technology is a pretty good model of what an eventual Mars colony will need. When (or if) people finally travel to Mars to stay, the biggest risk to the colony will be being dependent on imports from Earth. It will always be expensive to send ships from Earth to Mars, so it is folly to assume that resupply missions will continue indefinitely. So a colony which hopes to be viable must be vig…

There's no wood on Mars. A great deal of our infrastructure (not just Amish infrastructure) is wood-based, and the first Martians will have to find a substitute for it. The typical substitute for wood is plastic, but that comes from petroleum, and there's none of that on Mars either. I suppose one of the first things we'll have to build on Mars is greenhouses -- not just for food, but for plant-based plastic to build things with.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#35

Post by snarf21 »

kibwen wrote: post #30
snarf21 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Lancaster PA and most Amish can't afford the farm land here anymore (its become housing and malls) and have moved west. Lots of Amish now work in the trades (construction/electrical/roofing/etc.) Someone picks them up and takes them to their job sites. Their general low standard of living (no car payments or electronics budgets) allow for that to be a very solid income for most.

By "moved west" I presume you just mean farther west into the state, rather than the west coast? I'm from near Mercer, PA and I haven't noticed any decline in the number of buggies on the roads near there.

A lot have moved west of the mountains but they have also pushed into Ohio, Indiana and Iowa. There are still plenty around but the model of buying a farm for each new couple to run and start their own family isn't tenable with the real estate prices around here and the declining number of farms period.

It is quite a shame as Lancaster County is some of the world's best farmland/top soil and we've paved it all. :(

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#36

Post by zer0t3ch »

dzdt wrote: post #27

The Amish attitude towards technology is a pretty good model of what an eventual Mars colony will need. When (or if) people finally travel to Mars to stay, the biggest risk to the colony will be being dependent on imports from Earth. It will always be expensive to send ships from Earth to Mars, so it is folly to assume that resupply missions will continue indefinitely. So a colony which hopes to be viable must be vig…

That's an interesting comparison, but it totally makes sense.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#37

Post by stcredzero »

dzdt wrote: post #27

The Amish attitude towards technology is a pretty good model of what an eventual Mars colony will need. When (or if) people finally travel to Mars to stay, the biggest risk to the colony will be being dependent on imports from Earth. It will always be expensive to send ships from Earth to Mars, so it is folly to assume that resupply missions will continue indefinitely. So a colony which hopes to be viable must be vig…

Anything that can be made locally on Mars is best

It has been proposed that many early Martian colonial buildings will be vaulted masonry built using locally manufactured bricks. The weight of the building and soil can serve to contain a pressurized atmosphere. Frozen water could be used in certain environments to make such buildings airtight.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#38

Post by khuey »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #34
dzdt wrote: post #27

The Amish attitude towards technology is a pretty good model of what an eventual Mars colony will need. When (or if) people finally travel to Mars to stay, the biggest risk to the colony will be being dependent on imports from Earth. It will always be expensive to send ships from Earth to Mars, so it is folly to assume that resupply missions will continue indefinitely. So a colony which hopes to be viable must be vig…

There's no wood on Mars. A great deal of our infrastructure (not just Amish infrastructure) is wood-based, and the first Martians will have to find a substitute for it. The typical substitute for wood is plastic, but that comes from petroleum, and there's none of that on Mars either. I suppose one of the first things we'll have to build on Mars is greenhouses -- not just for food, but for plant-based plastic to build…

Or we'll just make a lot more things out of metal.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#39

Post by ChuckMcM »

dzdt wrote: post #27

The Amish attitude towards technology is a pretty good model of what an eventual Mars colony will need. When (or if) people finally travel to Mars to stay, the biggest risk to the colony will be being dependent on imports from Earth. It will always be expensive to send ships from Earth to Mars, so it is folly to assume that resupply missions will continue indefinitely. So a colony which hopes to be viable must be vig…

This suggests that if you want to create a company that is acquired by Elon Musk you probably want to design/patent systems and methodologies for building things on Mars :-)

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#40

Post by stcredzero »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #34
dzdt wrote: post #27

The Amish attitude towards technology is a pretty good model of what an eventual Mars colony will need. When (or if) people finally travel to Mars to stay, the biggest risk to the colony will be being dependent on imports from Earth. It will always be expensive to send ships from Earth to Mars, so it is folly to assume that resupply missions will continue indefinitely. So a colony which hopes to be viable must be vig…

There's no wood on Mars. A great deal of our infrastructure (not just Amish infrastructure) is wood-based, and the first Martians will have to find a substitute for it. The typical substitute for wood is plastic, but that comes from petroleum, and there's none of that on Mars either. I suppose one of the first things we'll have to build on Mars is greenhouses -- not just for food, but for plant-based plastic to build…

The typical substitute for wood is plastic, but that comes from petroleum, and there's none of that on Mars either.

This was covered in Zubrin's The Case for Mars. With the input of some hydrogen and some energy, you can source feedstock for plastics from Mars' atmosphere. For example, ethylene:

http://pioneerastro.com/Team/RZubrin/Mars_In-Situ_Resource_U...

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