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Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

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Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#31

Post by hyperpallium »

btilly wrote: post #10
mmanfrin wrote: post #6

A single inlet, attached to the Red Sea -- wouldn't this be a Sea and not an Ocean ? Also a story like this without a map is very annoying; my best guess as to where it is is here: https://www.google.com/maps/@10.1384475,40.4893819,818636a,2...

The Earth has a continental drift cycle where we form a supercontinent, which changes the circulation pattern, the supercontinent breaks up, the pieces drift around the world, and then recombine into a supercontinent again. The last supercontinent was Pangea Asia, Europe and Africa are what is left and they are continuing to break up. The next one will meet where the Pacific plate now is. So this starts as a rift, th…

Is there evidence for continent/ocean placement affecting convection currents in the mantle (and thus plate movements)?

Is there evidence for any changes in convection currents?

i.e. what do we have to go on, besides back-extrapolation of observed drift (happening today, and in "recent" geologic past, e.g. reversal of magnetized direction)?

Why should the continents recombine into a supercontinent, rather that drift arbitrarily? Is the idea that, sooner or later, a traffic jam will occur, where first two bang into each other and can't move, creating a larger obstacle, which another then collides with... but since there's some process for a supercontinent to separate, what's the neccessity for this process to not tear apart the collided continents before a full supercontinent is formed?

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#32

Post by beautifulfreak »

mmanfrin wrote: post #6

A single inlet, attached to the Red Sea -- wouldn't this be a Sea and not an Ocean ? Also a story like this without a map is very annoying; my best guess as to where it is is here: https://www.google.com/maps/@10.1384475,40.4893819,818636a,2...

This version of the story included a map. http://mgafrica.com/article/2015-03-31-bye-bye-east-africa-t...

Here's the map image alone: http://cdn.mg.co.za/crop/content/images/2015/03/31/easplitma...

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#33

Post by prewett »

maxxxxx wrote: post #21
djsumdog wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long do you think humans will be around? Sure, homosapiens have been here for like 2~3 million years, right? But out modern human civilizations are very young, like ~ 10,000 years at the most (depending on your metrics and what is a civilization). To quote Blade Running, "the flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long." We could be here another million years, or we could be here only 50,000 more years ..…

I bet in 10 million years we'll be totally gone or somewhere in a computer. I doubt we'll still bother with physical bodies.

Assuming it is possible (which I don't think), would you really want to be a disembodied computer program?

(Being in a robot doesn't count, since you'd merely be exchanging one body for another.)

[The following is intended philosophically, not religiously] There is an old, I believe Jewish, tradition that demons are spirits without a body. Their whole goal is to regain a body (hence demonic possession). In one interpretation of Mark 5, when Jesus tells the demons to leave the Gerasene man, they ask for permission to go into the pigs nearby. [1] I guess a pig body is better than none (but it doesn't work, the pigs rush off the cliff and drown, leaving the demons bodyless again).

I've thought about that interpretation over the years as a philosophical exercise. If you are only spirit and no body, then maybe you cannot interact with the world. That would be a bummer... You'd be stuck trying to get spirits with bodies to use them for you.

So if you are a disembodied computer program, how would you see? How would you communicate? How would you repair yourself? How would you influence world events? You'd be stuck experiencing things vicariously, by snooping on Google images and people's FB accounts and reading their emails, and hacking their computers/Google glass/VR/cars/robots. If you couldn't find someone to do your bidding willingly, you would have to start manipulating people to get them to do what you want. You manipulate people through fear and through temptation. All this is starting to sound rather demonic. You'd end up as a digital demon...

[1] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+5&version=...

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#34

Post by prewett »

soyiuz wrote: post #4

A map would be extremely useful to illustrate the process (instead of a picture of dirt). I am also not clear as to why the new waterway would be considered a "new ocean." Would it not just form a strait or at most a sea as a part of the Indian Ocean?

It's so new that it isn't big enough to be an ocean yet. But if you wait a while, you'll see...

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#35

Post by erikpukinskis »

WildUtah wrote: post #26

Americans don't need to travel so far to see an ocean being born. The block-fault zone from the Sea of Cortez up through most of Nevada is pulling apart rapidly and has already created 500 miles of inlet between Baja California and mainland Mexico. Much of the next few hundred miles north through the Salton Sea and Death Valley is already under sea level and all of Nevada has thinning crust that will eventually fall…

So, cheap seafront property in Nevada right now?

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#36

Post by drinkjuice »

prewett wrote: post #33
maxxxxx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet in 10 million years we'll be totally gone or somewhere in a computer. I doubt we'll still bother with physical bodies.

Assuming it is possible (which I don't think), would you really want to be a disembodied computer program? (Being in a robot doesn't count, since you'd merely be exchanging one body for another.) [The following is intended philosophically, not religiously] There is an old, I believe Jewish, tradition that demons are spirits without a body. Their whole goal is to regain a body (hence demonic possession). In one interp…

For me the whole "uploading people into computers" and other immortality pipe dreams are really just playing for time. Even if it was possible and desirable, which I have my doubts about, that's not how it will play out. That's the carrot, not the road, and I think the destination will be more tiled and dimly lit rather than a sunny meadow where we all dance and create in. It's like saying you have to burn everything to start building... but burning really everything, including the will and the means to build.

If we threw the Earth into the sun, and the sun managed to dissolve all of us and all we have made, would that mean we ascended, that a molten sea is a higher stage of evolution because it "won"? Of course not. We're like a magician who makes himself disappear.. okay fine, neat trick, now what? If there was anyone to applaud, we wouldn't hear it anyway. Am I too cynical? But I'm biting my tongue!

Though I don't really mean the body, I think that's kind of orthogonal. Someone can be paralyzed from their neck down and still think straight, while others walk about, go to the gym regularly, and still don't see the woods for all the trees.

What really strikes me is that reading intelligent people had more interesting things to say about automation decades and if you squint hard maybe even centuries ago, than we have today. We are at the court of the king exchanging platitudes so to speak, not in the halls of scholars describing that king freely and in depth.

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#37

Post by mulmen »

djsumdog wrote: post #17
beamatronic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have satellites - I don't know about 10 million years but it seems reasonable to assume that humans will maintain satellites in orbit for imaging purposes as long as we are technologically able.

How long do you think humans will be around? Sure, homosapiens have been here for like 2~3 million years, right? But out modern human civilizations are very young, like ~ 10,000 years at the most (depending on your metrics and what is a civilization). To quote Blade Running, "the flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long." We could be here another million years, or we could be here only 50,000 more years ..…

Our ability to create, record and maintain data is increasing exponentially. Someone in Indonesia was able to get a message 35,000 years into the future using a cave and come paint. We have only gotten better at preserving data since then. I think it's safe to assume that at least some of the information we record will survive as long as there is someone around to care.

I don't think that two works of fiction from the last century are reliable indicators of the longevity of our species. I look more to the historical evidence we have of the resilience of humans. I don't know if we will be around for millions of years but I don't think we have reached midlife.

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#38

Post by mulmen »

prewett wrote: post #33
maxxxxx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet in 10 million years we'll be totally gone or somewhere in a computer. I doubt we'll still bother with physical bodies.

Assuming it is possible (which I don't think), would you really want to be a disembodied computer program? (Being in a robot doesn't count, since you'd merely be exchanging one body for another.) [The following is intended philosophically, not religiously] There is an old, I believe Jewish, tradition that demons are spirits without a body. Their whole goal is to regain a body (hence demonic possession). In one interp…

Interesting take that I had not considered. I was not familiar with the story from Mark. I have thought about this topic as well but from a completely different direction.

My question about uploading consciousness is in the transition point. As I sit here in front of my computer could I click a button and upload my memories and consciousness to a computer? Would they for some reason leave my body at the same time? Would it be instantly fatal? Why?

Wouldn't I really just be forking my consciousness? One version of me would continue forward inside a computer with the memory of the transition and the corporeal me would continue wondering if it even worked. The corporeal me would still die at some point but I could die with the satisfaction(?) that I created a copy of myself at some point in time.

I'm not sure that's much different than writing a book and having children.

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#39

Post by drinkjuice »

adamcharnock wrote: post #16

"parts of the region are below sea level and the ocean is only cut off by about a 20-metre block of land in Eritrea." This caught my eye. How big is this region that is just 20m away from being flooded? And 20m of Eritrea at that. Not exactly comparable IMHO to the rather more politically stable Netherlands.

Assuming this map is somewhat accurate, it seems like even just 1m would make most of the difference for that country:

http://geology.com/sea-level-rise/

Re: Africa 'witnessing birth of a new ocean' (2010)

#40

Post by abecedarius »

maxxxxx wrote: post #5

We should set up a webcam there and make a time lapse for the next 10 million years.

There was a novel where someone showed a "home movie" like that -- Marooned in Real Time, Vernor Vinge. It's not a spoiler, just a cool detail. Alas that the time travel that made it possible went only one way.
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