Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy • Hacker News Board

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#31

Post by metaphorm » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:13 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #28

metaphorm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As if their hate has anything to do with Israel's actions not sure if this is a serious statement or not. your tone suggests serious but your words are not serious.

Perhaps you don't know that Muslim attacks on Jews long predate the modern state of Israel. Additionally hate for Jews is common in Arab counties that are very far away from, and don't interact with, Israel at all. There is nothing at all Israel can do to change this. Look at Egypt for example - very long and successful peace treaty. But the populace still hates Jews. If it's not possible to make an ordinary Egyptian…

this is noxious. Christians also have an extremely long history of anti-semitism and yet you're not coming in here saying "how can any Christians ever be trusted, given their history?"

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#32

Post by YZF » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:24 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #29

YZF wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza has chosen a confrontational attitude with their neighbors Egypt and Israel. When Israel withdrew from Gaza they proceeded to promptly demolish the greenhouses that Israel left (and I believed donors actually purchased for them). Next was lynching their fellow Palestinians who happened to support Fatah rather than Hamas. Tunneling under the borders. Rocket attacks ... For sure there are two sides to the story an…

And the solution is to indiscriminately bomb Gaza and then prevent it from rebuilding once the bombing is over? What did the children ever do to deserve watching their parents or friends or teachers die before their very eyes? Do you even realize how difficult it would be for a child to live life normally after their school is destroyed? How do you think such actions will affect young children? If you were one of the…

I don't have a solution. There's plenty of trauma on both sides. I don't want to start dredging up all the horrible acts of violence experienced by Israelis. This sort of thinking is not productive. It's more useful to think given where we are right now what can be done...

Part of the issue with rebuilding is that the raw materials get confiscated to support the war effort.

The bombing is at least partly related to the reduction of other options. Israel used to have the option of driving tanks in to get at some particular problem but now Gaza is so heavily mined and full of anti-tank weapons that this can't be done. It also has a significant tunnel network which makes infantry less of an option. So if someone fires a rocket at you from Gaza you have fewer options. This is just a pure strategic calculation, not really political. Part of that calculation is also the moral side, the impact on the population and the public opinion side of bombing, hence the "knock on roof" protocols and various pre-warning to allow people to evict buildings that are targets to a bomb. But surely a lot of innocent people still do get hurt, this tends to happen in war...

At any rate, this is very much not black and white. I think these days in Israel there is a lot less interest in peace mostly because getting burned with previous attempts has left deep scars in the general population. Anything that can be done to try and normalize things is welcome...

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#33

Post by ars » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

metaphorm wrote: post #31

ars wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you don't know that Muslim attacks on Jews long predate the modern state of Israel. Additionally hate for Jews is common in Arab counties that are very far away from, and don't interact with, Israel at all. There is nothing at all Israel can do to change this. Look at Egypt for example - very long and successful peace treaty. But the populace still hates Jews. If it's not possible to make an ordinary Egyptian…

this is noxious. Christians also have an extremely long history of anti-semitism and yet you're not coming in here saying "how can any Christians ever be trusted, given their history?"

Easy for you to say when you're not the one being attacked and hated.

"Just trust them and wait them out, they don't all hate you. Let them kill a few and hopefully they'll stop someday."

Right now, today, Muslim hate of Jews in nearly universal. In the past Christians were anti-semitic, sure, but right now today, it's relatively rare.

Tell me something, is there any city on the planet that you know with 100% certainty that if you stepped foot in it virtually the entire populace would try to kill you? And I don't mean the criminals, I mean the ordinary people who live there.

Because when a Jew travels near Palestinians areas simply getting lost is fatal, unless the army rescues them. And you want them to trust?

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#34

Post by random314 » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:28 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #5

oculusthrift wrote: post #2

is doing something like this considered a political statement against israel?

Not in the slightest. This kind of activity (economic activity) is probably the best way possible to deescalate the conflict. Israel has no interest in Gaza, they just want them to stop trying to attack, so if anything this program is for Israel, not against it. If you need evidence for that, then note that even during the worst conflicts Israel kept full communication (Cell and Internet) active in Gaza, which is opp…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid

> The Gaza flotilla raid was a military operation by Israel against six civilian ships of the "Gaza Freedom Flotilla" on 31 May 2010 in international waters in the Mediterranean Sea. Nine activists were killed in the raid. The flotilla, organized by the Free Gaza Movement and the Turkish Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (İHH), was carrying humanitarian aid and construction materials, with the intention of breaking the Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#35

Post by abalone » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:33 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #5

oculusthrift wrote: post #2

is doing something like this considered a political statement against israel?

Not in the slightest. This kind of activity (economic activity) is probably the best way possible to deescalate the conflict. Israel has no interest in Gaza, they just want them to stop trying to attack, so if anything this program is for Israel, not against it. If you need evidence for that, then note that even during the worst conflicts Israel kept full communication (Cell and Internet) active in Gaza, which is opp…

> Israel has no interest in Gaza, they just want them to stop trying to attack

This is false and one-sided. Likud, the ruling party in Israel, has in its platform an explicit denial of the right for a Palestinian state to exist west of the Jordan river.[1] Everything you've heard about Palestinians/Hamas denying Israel the right to exist is actually true about Israel as well towards Palestine. (In fact Hamas has stated they would respect a two-state solution; not the case for Likud.)

There are atrocities back and forth, for example "A month before [the murders of Israeli boys that set off the attack], two Palestinian boys were shot dead in the West Bank city of Ramallah."[2] However the scale of Israel's atrocities in military operations is massively larger, and the conditions they maintain in Gaza through sanctions and violence are unconscionable. One could argue the conditions are calculated to foment discontent and keep the conflict on the military field, because politically the settlements and occupation have no standing, as regularly condemned by the whole world in U.N. resolutions.[3]

[1] http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestin...

[2] http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/25343-noam-chomsky-%7C-ni...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_con...

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#36

Post by metaphorm » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:34 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #33

metaphorm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is noxious. Christians also have an extremely long history of anti-semitism and yet you're not coming in here saying "how can any Christians ever be trusted, given their history?"

Easy for you to say when you're not the one being attacked and hated. "Just trust them and wait them out, they don't all hate you. Let them kill a few and hopefully they'll stop someday." Right now, today, Muslim hate of Jews in nearly universal. In the past Christians were anti-semitic, sure, but right now today, it's relatively rare. Tell me something, is there any city on the planet that you know with 100% certain…

I'm a Jewish American with holocaust survivors in my extended family. I have not personally experienced that kind of hate but certainly it is known to my family.

You, I think, need some perspective. There's nothing more to be gained from this conversation.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#37

Post by detritus » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:38 PM UTC

inglor wrote: post #19

dannylandau wrote: post #15

Seems like Israeli companies are also trying to help out -- http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-mellan...

I have second hand experience from friends working there. Lots of good cooperation is happening between Israelis and Palestinians. If only our governments didn't suck :) The Palestinian workers in Mellanox are well liked and respected from what I saw and the company enjoys having them.

Thanks for this — always good to hear from people on the ground, so to speak, away from all the prepolarised babble.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#38

Post by dosgonlogs » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:39 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #28

metaphorm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As if their hate has anything to do with Israel's actions not sure if this is a serious statement or not. your tone suggests serious but your words are not serious.

Perhaps you don't know that Muslim attacks on Jews long predate the modern state of Israel. Additionally hate for Jews is common in Arab counties that are very far away from, and don't interact with, Israel at all. There is nothing at all Israel can do to change this. Look at Egypt for example - very long and successful peace treaty. But the populace still hates Jews. If it's not possible to make an ordinary Egyptian…

Read it and weep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

Israel has a history of attacking itself and blaming it on Muslims.

Israel is Awful (Government, not all the people).

IDF (Israeli Military) was established by Israeli Terrorist groups.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#39

Post by starik36 » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:40 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #30

ars wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you don't know that Muslim attacks on Jews long predate the modern state of Israel. Additionally hate for Jews is common in Arab counties that are very far away from, and don't interact with, Israel at all. There is nothing at all Israel can do to change this. Look at Egypt for example - very long and successful peace treaty. But the populace still hates Jews. If it's not possible to make an ordinary Egyptian…

You are overgeneralizing. Morocco and Tunisia (my home country) have some of the oldest Jewish populations in the world. As a Tunisian, I am extremely proud to have Jewish brothers and sisters who share my culture. My grandparents (from both sides) had very close friends who happened to be Jewish. Yes, they have decreased in number over the years, but I think Tunisia has done a good job protecting them. For example,…

That maybe true. But nearly 99% of the Jews did leave Tunisia, according to the Wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Mu....

In 1948, there were 105,000 Jews in Tunisia. Now there are 1,500.

How do you explain that?

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#40

Post by ars » Wed, Jan 11, 2017, 10:41 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #30

ars wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you don't know that Muslim attacks on Jews long predate the modern state of Israel. Additionally hate for Jews is common in Arab counties that are very far away from, and don't interact with, Israel at all. There is nothing at all Israel can do to change this. Look at Egypt for example - very long and successful peace treaty. But the populace still hates Jews. If it's not possible to make an ordinary Egyptian…

You are overgeneralizing. Morocco and Tunisia (my home country) have some of the oldest Jewish populations in the world. As a Tunisian, I am extremely proud to have Jewish brothers and sisters who share my culture. My grandparents (from both sides) had very close friends who happened to be Jewish. Yes, they have decreased in number over the years, but I think Tunisia has done a good job protecting them. For example,…

> You are overgeneralizing.

A bit, I know. But Morocco and Tunisia have some of the best relationships to Jews among the Arab countries. You have to be aware that they are the exception, not the rule.

> I am extremely proud to have Jewish brothers and sisters who share my culture. My grandparents (from both sides) had very close friends who happened to be Jewish.

And it's people like you and your grandparents that give me hope for peace in the world. May there be more like you, and may you have much success in both your personal life, and in influencing others!