Adding up the cost of uncontrolled immigration • Hacker News Board

Re: Adding up the cost of uncontrolled immigration

#31

Post by heurist » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 3:46 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #24

bayesian_horse wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This simplified notion of "Supply and demand" does not work with immigration and labor. The obvious solution to your problem of lower wages would be to legalize illegal immigrants to give them equal rights and empower them to seek higher wages.

This wouldn't work either, because the majority of immigrants will still be unskilled, not speaking the language well etc, starting as dirt poor and having to work hand to mouth, and thus unable to "seek higher wages" for other reasons too aside from their illegal status.

In that case they'd have to go back to their home countries to find work.

Re: Adding up the cost of uncontrolled immigration

#32

Post by chillacy » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 9:47 PM UTC

bayesian_horse wrote: post #14

chillacy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They increase demand for products (certain products that are local only to the destination country, not things they would buy anyways like a cellphone), but not jobs. Increased workforce will increase supply of labor much more than it will increase demand for that labor (which I can't think of a direct route which would cause that, except for general economic boom leading to more businesses, but that's pretty indirec…

That is a bunch of completely unproven assumptions. Of course immigrants increase the demand for labor. Even the illegal ones. You can't think of a direct route? Try the obvious ones: Who cuts their hair? Who fixes their car? Sells them groceries? It's even more obvious for legal immigrants. What's wrong with a general economic boom?

Great for haircut salons: you get cheaper labor with an increased labor pool and you get more customers!

Not great for the previous employees of the haircut salon.

I'm not convinced that the increased demand for haircuts will outpace the wage loss that came with increased competition for that job.

Re: Adding up the cost of uncontrolled immigration

#33

Post by chillacy » Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 9:59 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #19

Sure, let's add up the cost. What is the cost of a human life? What is the cost of the welfare of children whose only crime is following their parents across a border? I don't pose these questions to signal virtue, but to point out the absurdity of assigning something like a cost function to something as natural as wanting a better life for oneself or one's children. It might very well be true that "uncontrolled" imm…

Depends if the economics are zero sum or not, it could be that helping one group necessarily harms the other. Evidence in the article would imply that to be true, at least how we do things today. I'm not convinced there isn't a non-zero-sum solution though.

Re: Adding up the cost of uncontrolled immigration

#34

Post by guard-of-terra » Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 7:13 AM UTC

tomcam wrote: post #7

Thank you, HN peeps. Nice to see the loyal opposition appear on HN once in a while. I accept the site's left-of-center leanings, but it's heartwarming to see a different perspective hit the front page every so often. Speaks well of the mods and audience here.

Should not have thanked them. The article quickly went flagged.