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Try emergent coding

codevalley.com

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Re: Try emergent coding

#31

Post by jlovisa »

justusw wrote: post #10
sgentle wrote: post #8

I'm reminded of what Richard Dawkins had to say about the Bicameral Mind book: "either complete rubbish or a work of consummate genius, nothing in between!" This website is really rough, the writing is dense and the first rule of video club is don't get one of the founders to narrate the video unless your CTO is Morgan Freeman. That said, I think this is just so unbelievably audacious that it's worth a look anyway. T…

I really wonder how software verification works in the case of Code Valley, e.g. if you order List.append a b, how do you know it won't return List.append b a? This could perhaps be a great application for Idris-Style dependent types. For example, you could create an RFP for "List.append" with a few constraints, `len(append(a+b)) == len(a) + len(b)` and so on and then know that the market will create something you ca…

Hi, I'm one part of the Code Valley team. Happy to answer questions.

Any developer can vet suppliers before they automate an agent to contract them. For example, you could contract the agent you're looking to vet, hit 'build' and be returned a small program to carry out List.append a b. If the program works as you expect, you have then verified (in that instant of time) that the supplier is sound, and can proceed to building your own agent to contract it.

Re: Try emergent coding

#32

Post by jlovisa »

dkarapetyan wrote: post #18
nol13 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like absolute rubbish to me.. ("It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!")

I've been waiting to be automated out of my job for a while now. I also think this is rubbish but great that they are trying. I'm sure it will deliver some value to someone.

Cheers - thanks for giving us the benefit of the doubt. The technology still has a long way to go before it can cater to the end-users of the world, but it is at least at the stage where other developers can join and build their own agents in preparation.

Re: Try emergent coding

#33

Post by jlovisa »

protexilu wrote: post #22
md_ wrote: post #5

Holy fuck, that reads like something written by TimeCube Guy. I guess the real example is this one: "For example, the compare::bytesequence::lesser agent, when contracted, will design the code that will compare two strings. At first glance, a developer may see that title and assume that the compare::bytesequence::lesser agent will actually compare one given string against another, but in actual fact, the compare::byt…

it's like having functions, but with someone to write the function for you. The thing with the market is that you'd know that the code you get is verifiably accurate and thus, your software will have no bugs.

I'm part of the Code Valley team, and can I just say what a relief it is to see this comment. Most balk at the idea of not having source code to read and verify, but there are other ways to achieve verification, as you have stated.

Re: Try emergent coding

#35

Post by jlovisa »

MichaelGG wrote: post #17
pasiaj wrote: post #4

The video on the website is hilariously bad. Feels more like a parody skit than a real presentation of the service. Here's a better one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZCv696rMCk

That video feels like a viral ad for some new comedy TV show aimed at developers. You just "select features" then a "network of developer bots" contract out recursively until they contract developer bots to build individual bytes. Then they "join bytes together" into "one long string of bytes". This has to be a scam, a joke, performance art -- something like that. Edit: After reading the website more in depth, I am n…

I'm part of the team at Code Valley and would be happy to answer any of your questions... and help allay that "sinking feeling" as best I can.

Re: Try emergent coding

#36

Post by julie_lovisa »

duckingtest wrote: post #29

Awesome idea, was thinking about something like that for a long time. Not sure about implementation though. You can define algorithmic problems in a declarative way, but what about the rest, ie. 99% of actual work? Like a website. To verify that a result is good would require a human-level ai. Instead of a hello world example in a video I would like to see a high-level example for something really complex, like: "The…

We do. Here is a cut-down version of it being expressed and built: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6jtCVOQiuA (Note: it uses our old interface, so it is a little rough.)

Re: Try emergent coding

#37

Post by julie_lovisa »

GnarfGnarf wrote: post #28

If you develop an app based on this network of contractors, how can you be sure they'll always be around to support your app? Do you make a local copy of the foreign app? What if they increase their fees and hold you up for ransom?

This technology allows developers to build agents that compete with each other for client business. If an agent disappears and it was the only one published under its classification and there is a client now without a supplier, that represents tangible demand. How long do you think it would take for another enterprising developer to come in and fill that void?

And you don't need to worry about suppliers increasing their fees and holding you ransom... again, that represents demand: another enterprising developer can come in and fill your need for a more reasonably priced service and undercut the exorbitantly priced supplier (who will likely go out of business quick-smart).

Re: Try emergent coding

#38

Post by julie_lovisa »

CapacitorSet wrote: post #6

Is there a technical, non-commercial introduction that isn't filled with too much marketing hype?

Have you had a chance to check out the Interactive Tour (http://marketplace.codevalley.com/use-it)? It shows only one side - how to use agents to build software, but once you're familiar with that, you can request an invite to see the other side: how to build your own agents.

Re: Try emergent coding

#39

Post by julie_lovisa »

new299 wrote: post #27

I really feel like there is something genuinely interesting here. However I've read the main page, looked at 3 videos. Tried the demo... I still don't really understand what's going on. Now, it is 6am and I've been up all night working on a project. But if I'm really trying to understand what's going on and it's not clicking /at all/ then it probably means there's a problem with either the description or the model it…

I'm part of the Code Valley team. I really appreciate you spending so much time trying to understand the technology. If things aren't clicking, that is my fault, and I will do my very best to help clear up any confusion. Have you had a chance to check out the User Guide (https://marketplace.codevalley.com/use-it) or the Interactive Tour (https://marketplace.codevalley.com/use-it/module0-step1) at all? When/if you get a chance to check them out, please don't hesitate to email me with any further questions you have (julie@codevalley.com).

Re: Try emergent coding

#40

Post by julie_lovisa »

lgas wrote: post #3
SuperPaintMan wrote: post #2

The slide deck is slightly less confusing. https://marketplace.codevalley.com/use-it/

...but is hidden behind a login.

There are two sides to this technology: the users (those who use it to build programs - the demand), and the contributors (those who build the agents that build software - the supply).

The User side of things does not require a login. You can learn more about how to use the technology in the User Guide (https://marketplace.codevalley.com/use-it) and in the Interactive Tour (https://marketplace.codevalley.com/use-it/module0-step1). If you pick that up pretty quickly, you can request an invite to join the other side and become an agent builder (https://marketplace.codevalley.com/signup).

The only reason we have the invite-only mechanism in place is to ensure the integrity of the contributors. The system is so new, and reputations are still being developed; new contributors must be assured of some measure of the calibre of other contributors.

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