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Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

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Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#31

Post by nodesocket »

toor2 wrote: post #27
nodesocket wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait I'm confused. Are you literally upset by this? Why is enforcing the law and following policies so everybody can make a successful transition to become a US citizen a bad thing? If your illegal, and most likely your not going to pay your fair share for the entitlements and services you and others use then I have zero respect for you.

> Why is enforcing the law and following policies so everybody can make a successful transition to become a US citizen a bad thing? Because the laws are unjust. There is clearly an immigration problem in the United States and I personally don't believe tracking and deporting he people already here will ever contribute to a successful solution. > If your illegal, and most likely your not going to pay your fair share f…

> Because the laws are unjust

So the solution is just don't obey them? Also, I don't think the laws are unjust. The laws are there to make sure fiscally the United States has the resources and security to protect its citizens.

See how well open borders has worked for Germany. These policies have further strengthened extreme right parties in Germany which potentially will be much worse (see Germany brexit or equivalent of Trump in Germany) which is very possible.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#32

Post by ewzimm »

nodesocket wrote: post #17
evanwolf wrote: post #12

This startup helps hackers track Peter Thiel's immoral startups.

Wait I'm confused. Are you literally upset by this? Why is enforcing the law and following policies so everybody can make a successful transition to become a US citizen a bad thing? If your illegal, and most likely your not going to pay your fair share for the entitlements and services you and others use then I have zero respect for you.

People tend to ignore the negative consequences of causes they support. We all want to live in the best possible world, and it's hard to accept that any policy we choose will have serious negative consequences. We know for a fact that failing to enforce immigration laws will lead to tens of thousands of murders and kidnappings every year. And yet enforcing them will lead to a lot of misery for those who are deported. There's no convenient solution where everyone wins. It's hard to accept the reality of the situation, and so we often choose to see only one side.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#34

Post by nodesocket »

cryptarch wrote: post #30
nodesocket wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That can't be right. According to the Wall Street Journal [1] there is a total of 11 million illegal immigrants in the US as a whole. [1] - http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-illegal-immigrants-in-...

Estimates range from 11 to 16 million illegal immigrants, though a few years ago the highest one was at 20 million.

So you're really telling me on the high end 100% of illegal immigrants pay taxes and on the low end 68% do?

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#35

Post by SilasX »

DanBC wrote: post #25
nodesocket wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait I'm confused. Are you literally upset by this? Why is enforcing the law and following policies so everybody can make a successful transition to become a US citizen a bad thing? If your illegal, and most likely your not going to pay your fair share for the entitlements and services you and others use then I have zero respect for you.

Undocumented workers still pay tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_imm... > The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."[25]

Yes, they pay sales tax. Not income or FICA.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#36

Post by jacalata »

SilasX wrote: post #35
DanBC wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Undocumented workers still pay tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_imm... > The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."[25]

Yes, they pay sales tax. Not income or FICA.

A significant number of undocumented workers use a fake SSN for their job so they do pay income taxes and FICA - but can never claim tax refunds, earned income credit, or their social security credits - http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/...

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#37

Post by jacalata »

234dd57d2c8db wrote: post #3

Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping tax cheats avoid the government. Or maybe it's time for illegal immigrants to follow the law, just like thousands of legal immigrants do? Maybe they can pay taxes for the social welfare resources they use, the free college, the free medical expenses. Do you know how frustrating it is for legal immigrants who worked hard to become legal and follow the la…

It's not frustrating at all. Source: I am a legal immigrant.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#38

Post by SilasX »

jacalata wrote: post #36
SilasX wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they pay sales tax. Not income or FICA.

A significant number of undocumented workers use a fake SSN for their job so they do pay income taxes and FICA - but can never claim tax refunds, earned income credit, or their social security credits - http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/...

Fair enough, but the parent was quoting their total payment (not just payroll) as 8% of their income, which is still an extreme underpayment, and equivalent to the case where they are only paying sales taxes.

That doesn't mean "yup, close the border", but we should still be careful about distinguishing the issues: yes, immigration may be below the optimal level, but it doesn't follow that illegal immigration is unproblematic in this respect.

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#39

Post by thescribe »

jacalata wrote: post #36
SilasX wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they pay sales tax. Not income or FICA.

A significant number of undocumented workers use a fake SSN for their job so they do pay income taxes and FICA - but can never claim tax refunds, earned income credit, or their social security credits - http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/...

I was under the impression it can be a massive pain if an illegal immigrant pays taxes with your stolen SSN?

Re: Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

#40

Post by throwaw12ay »

jacalata wrote: post #36
SilasX wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they pay sales tax. Not income or FICA.

A significant number of undocumented workers use a fake SSN for their job so they do pay income taxes and FICA - but can never claim tax refunds, earned income credit, or their social security credits - http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/...

isn't it a felony to use a stolen SSN? there is no such thing as a fake SSN.
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