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Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

m.brianmcmanus.org

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Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#31

Post by avitzurel »

georgespencer wrote: post #24

I'm absolutely amazed that there isn't a single mention of referencing in here. It's by far the most important thing we do in our hiring cycle. Here's what we do, which is a little different: 1/ We'll spend in the order of 5-6 hours with a mid-to-senior hire before we recruit them. We pick one topic from their CV (the project they're proudest of or happiest with), and dive into it in huge detail: everything from the…

Because most people worth a dime interviewing for you are actively working for a different company. By asking and calling references you're "flushing them out".

This does not mean I disagree with you. We had someone working for us, we're connected on LinkedIn. That person since then switched multiple jobs and I know for a hard fact that he'd never get a job if the company just called people working with him. No way.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#32

Post by ryandrake »

GoToRO wrote: post #7
avitzurel wrote: post #2

Here's my perspective. (I am writing in a snarky way to convey a message) 1. If you're using recruiters, you're already losing. Especially if those are recruiting agencies that "hide" the name of the companies. The cold emails are just ridiculously hideous. 2. Use as little hyped up words as you possibly can. You might change the world, but everyone else is saying the same thing and people are getting sensitive about…

"Competitive salary" means "we pay the same crappy salaries as everybody else". Your salary will increase only if their competition increases salaries and people start to leave (hence "competitive").

Exactly. "Competitive salary" is one of those phrases that cause me to instantly filter out the job posting and help me move on to the next one.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#33

Post by ryandrake »

foldr wrote: post #20
throwawasiudy wrote: post #11

The author doesn't mention much about how to position yourself to be attractive to your candidates. Here's what I look for - and what I learned when we were hiring people of our own(not a startup but a dev shop of two...now seven). If you want good candidates to pick you, you have to show them (much like investors) that you know what the hell you're doing, otherwise the smartest will walk away. 1) Look legit, as much…

>There's much better ways of making money than joining a startup...these people are probably stupid or naive. I see this to an extent, but it's not stupid to refuse to work for a low salary. There seems to be an idea floating around that magic startup pixie dust somehow makes it possible to hire good people for little money. I'm not so sure.

Just to be sure, I just checked with my bank. They actually do NOT take "magic startup pixie dust" in lieu of mortgage payments. Same with the grocery store. So yea, that's kind of out. Bummer!

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#34

Post by jiaweihli »

Clubber wrote: post #22
adwww wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had conversations with recruiters where I've initially sounded interested, then changed my mind because it just sounds like too much hassle. They simply can't understand that I would give up when I realised there were three interviews, or that I needed to spend a day doing a test. Sure if I did well in one interview the other two would likely be fine too, but equally... I could just go to another company that sa…

I'm the same way. A full day interview is just silly, multiple day interviews, no way. Look at my resume, meet me, decide, make an offer. If it doesn't work out, fire me, but don't play this silly game of multiple interviews with multiple people that don't really talk to each other or coordinate. It makes the company look like they don't know what they are doing and/or are indecisive. You can keep that.

I strongly disagree with this. I've been on the other side of the fence, trying to hire people for an early-mid startup (5-40 people) as an early employee.

There are more people than you'd expect who can talk the talk but can't code at the same level. In the majority of companies, I'd bet there aren't too many openings for engineers in such a narrow role. If you don't want to work with an 'idea person', would you want to work with an 'idea engineer'?

Multi-day interviews are likely overkill, but a full day interview is completely fair. There's no need to do 4 back-to-back algorithm whiteboarding sessions, but testing other aspects such as data modelling, general architecture, and coding style/ability are all high-signal.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#35

Post by ryandrake »

adwww wrote: post #3
avitzurel wrote: post #2

Here's my perspective. (I am writing in a snarky way to convey a message) 1. If you're using recruiters, you're already losing. Especially if those are recruiting agencies that "hide" the name of the companies. The cold emails are just ridiculously hideous. 2. Use as little hyped up words as you possibly can. You might change the world, but everyone else is saying the same thing and people are getting sensitive about…

I've had conversations with recruiters where I've initially sounded interested, then changed my mind because it just sounds like too much hassle. They simply can't understand that I would give up when I realised there were three interviews, or that I needed to spend a day doing a test. Sure if I did well in one interview the other two would likely be fine too, but equally... I could just go to another company that sa…

Exactly. Here's an example: I once had a chat over coffee with a hiring manager for a smallish company that seemed interested in me. We talked about my background and accomplishments, went over a few example problems to see how I'd work through them, discussed a little about the company and the project. Everything was going great, and he seemed pretty pleased. At the end was a handshake and "You seem great for the job. I'll put you in touch with HR!" So, what are you thinking? I know what I was thinking!

So HR gets in touch and says "We would like to bring you in for the first set of interviews next week some time, when would work?" I said, "Uhh, there must be a mistake, I already talked with the hiring manager, I thought you were calling to discuss salary, benefits, start date, etc." HR: "Hmm, no, that's not right. Did you even fill out our application online yet?" Conversation was pretty much over from my standpoint at that point. What a crappy experience and a waste of time!

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#36

Post by ryandrake »

jiaweihli wrote: post #34
Clubber wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way. A full day interview is just silly, multiple day interviews, no way. Look at my resume, meet me, decide, make an offer. If it doesn't work out, fire me, but don't play this silly game of multiple interviews with multiple people that don't really talk to each other or coordinate. It makes the company look like they don't know what they are doing and/or are indecisive. You can keep that.

I strongly disagree with this. I've been on the other side of the fence, trying to hire people for an early-mid startup (5-40 people) as an early employee. There are more people than you'd expect who can talk the talk but can't code at the same level. In the majority of companies, I'd bet there aren't too many openings for engineers in such a narrow role. If you don't want to work with an 'idea person', would you wan…

Look at it from the candidate's point of view. Depending on what company I'm working for, I get 10, maybe 15 crappy days of paid time off that I have to split between vacation, sickness, and YOUR interview. If you take an entire day of my time, I can only do that max 10-15 times in the year, and that's if I don't get sick and have no vacation. I'm going to highly favor a company that does not make me blow one of those days entirely.

Multiple days? Not a chance.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#37

Post by Clubber »

ryandrake wrote: post #36
jiaweihli wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree with this. I've been on the other side of the fence, trying to hire people for an early-mid startup (5-40 people) as an early employee. There are more people than you'd expect who can talk the talk but can't code at the same level. In the majority of companies, I'd bet there aren't too many openings for engineers in such a narrow role. If you don't want to work with an 'idea person', would you wan…

Look at it from the candidate's point of view. Depending on what company I'm working for, I get 10, maybe 15 crappy days of paid time off that I have to split between vacation, sickness, and YOUR interview. If you take an entire day of my time, I can only do that max 10-15 times in the year, and that's if I don't get sick and have no vacation. I'm going to highly favor a company that does not make me blow one of thos…

I agree. If it's between two companies that pay "competitive rates," and one company wants me to interview for an hour and one company wants me to interview for a day, I'm not going to waste a day.

If you were paying 2x rates or real equity, ya I'd slog through a day long interview, but I bet you aren't.

What does your company have to offer that would compel me to spend 8 hours interviewing that another company doesn't?

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#38

Post by poikniok »

georgespencer wrote: post #24

I'm absolutely amazed that there isn't a single mention of referencing in here. It's by far the most important thing we do in our hiring cycle. Here's what we do, which is a little different: 1/ We'll spend in the order of 5-6 hours with a mid-to-senior hire before we recruit them. We pick one topic from their CV (the project they're proudest of or happiest with), and dive into it in huge detail: everything from the…

Wow this truly sounds horrible, glad I have never had to go through something like this.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#39

Post by Clubber »

d3mchi wrote: post #25
Clubber wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way. A full day interview is just silly, multiple day interviews, no way. Look at my resume, meet me, decide, make an offer. If it doesn't work out, fire me, but don't play this silly game of multiple interviews with multiple people that don't really talk to each other or coordinate. It makes the company look like they don't know what they are doing and/or are indecisive. You can keep that.

I feel that a multi-day interview or a longer process helps weed out those who aren't interested in your company, just interested in a job, but I can agree some companies overdo it. As for meeting with multiple people who don't talk/coordinate, that sounds more like something that takes place in a larger company, whereas this article was about new startups, where I imagine communication would be stronger.

>who aren't interested in your company, just interested in a job

Every founder thinks their company is great. People who want jobs will happily reinforce that delusion to get the job. Some companies are better than others, but most of it is really boring stuff. I guarantee that everyone working at your company is there because they need a job.

Re: Some Thoughts on Hiring at a New Startup

#40

Post by georgespencer »

poikniok wrote: post #38
georgespencer wrote: post #24

I'm absolutely amazed that there isn't a single mention of referencing in here. It's by far the most important thing we do in our hiring cycle. Here's what we do, which is a little different: 1/ We'll spend in the order of 5-6 hours with a mid-to-senior hire before we recruit them. We pick one topic from their CV (the project they're proudest of or happiest with), and dive into it in huge detail: everything from the…

Wow this truly sounds horrible, glad I have never had to go through something like this.

What in particular sounds horrible? It's been a very effective way of making sure we ramp up hires quickly because we have opinions from multiple people who worked with them.
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