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Clover Health, an insurance startup trying to use data to keep customers healthy

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Re: Clover Health, an insurance startup trying to use data to keep customers healthy

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take the Type 2 diabetes example given in the article. You might want to take care here -- to be honest I don't know all the things we do in home visits for diabetes assessment (though I am working a few desks over from the person building the next version of our diabetes assessment, so I could find out but then I'm unsure whether I can publicly detail the whole thing), but I'm pretty sure no matter how many th…

I put in qualifiers to ensure Clover has an out here, I really am rooting for you and all the other startups looking to improve health outcomes. However, nothing I've read about the business model tells me that Clover is spending $2500+ per month on all the tests with a CGM, possibly a personal trainer for weight lifting, and possibly a personal coach daily to tackle really tough periods like carb flu and fasting, to…

if you catch patients in their 20-40s

That's a big "if" for a Medicare Advantage insurer, since we can't enroll someone unless they're eligible for Medicare. Although it's possible to become Medicare-eligible prior to age 65, it's much less common, and some of the ways it happens make someone ineligible to enroll in a Medicare Advantage plan (for example, someone with end-stage renal disease is Medicare-eligible regardless of age, but unless already enrolled in one cannot join a Medicare Advantage plan -- they must opt for traditional Medicare instead).

So by the time a typical diabetic becomes eligible for a Medicare Advantage plan, the intense regimes you're talking about don't (as far as I know) offer any realistic chance of reverting. Which means most of the effort instead goes into proper management techniques to prevent progression and complications.

Re: Clover Health, an insurance startup trying to use data to keep customers healthy

#32
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's interesting you assumed there must be zero credentialed medical professionals involved in the company or the things we're trying, or that random engineers are making care decisions. So allow me to immediately disabuse you of that notion. We are not a tech-led company: we're a company that makes tech -- in the form of tools, data science, etc. -- available in service to our clinical, operations, and insur…

I didn't assume zero credentialed medical professionals are involved in the company. The article clearly states you have 12 nurse practitioners serving your 19,000 members. I looked at your website too and saw some of the other clinical operations roles. I also didn't assume random engineers are making care decisions. I said this is ambiguous and I asked a question: What is that suggesting process and who is involved…

I've left some longer comments elsewhere in this thread about the problems with typical insurers. There's a lot of low-hanging fruit out there, which many of them aren't equipped to take advantage of because of how they're structured, and don't particularly desire to take advantage of anyway. Like I said originally, a lot of insurers are content to look at the average risk, figure out a way to be profitable in spite of it, and call it a day, because the economics of Medicare Advantage have allegedly been "solved" in that sense.

The way I see it, the premise of Clover is asking what would happen if you removed the corporate-organization barriers and the organizational disinclination to do much beyond just processing claims. All those easy preventive-care wins suddenly become real options, for example. And as the insurer you have all the data to identify gaps and potential problems. For example: you know someone has a prescription because you see the pharmacy claims. And you know if they stop filling it because you stop getting claims. That's a potential problem that's easy to identify, and you have the staff to get in touch and find out what happened; maybe it's as simple as finding a pharmacy that's easier for them to get to, or a service that will pick up and deliver without requiring regular trips to the pharmacy. Sometimes it's the complexity of a particular medication regime (especially since often it just comes in the form of written instructions with little context), and clinical staff or pharmacists pharmacists take a look and come up with better explanations and adherence plans.

And really, just the easy obvious stuff is so copious that I suspect it's going to be years before we run out of it and have to worry about trying to come up with new ideas -- it's just that most insurers are not structured to take advantage even of stuff that's known to be helpful for people, so nobody's ever seen what happens when you try.

Still this is an industry entirely living off regulatory capture.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. I'm not privy to exactly why Clover's in the Medicare space, but my inclination is that it's because Medicare provides a stable, existing and relatively well-known space to operate in, and precisely because of how it's structured and regulated it provides a few things already packaged up that you don't have to bootstrap or which aren't quite as hard to bootstrap. And although it is heavily regulated, I've seen no evidence that the regulatory structure is designed to exclude competitors or preserve existing players; for example, in January of this year, Cigna (hardly a disruptive new player) was hit with sanctions that temporarily remove their ability to enroll new members into their Medicare Advantage plans. Everything I've seen of the regulatory environment is that it's designed to ensure the safety of Medicare enrollees and to push Medicare Advantage insurers to take good care of them.

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