Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linux on the Mac – state of the union

lwn.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 142 posts

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#31

Post by drvdevd »

kagamine wrote: post #28
drvdevd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I have experienced that choice on Apple hardware recently (2015 mbp retina), lately Linux seems to, let's say, 95% Just Work on non-apple x86 hardware for me, WLAN, sound, and suspend/resume. [edit] and this is with any distro, perhaps with more or less setup work

I find sleep/resume is successful when the proprietary driver is installed, nouveau isn't doing it doing it for me on Ubuntu derived 16.x distros (this month I have tried KDE Neon and Bodhi). The problem though, is that installing the drivers can be a pain. Last time I tried I soft bricked the PC and ended up doing a full reinstall to save time. As someone further down this thread said, what advantage is there these…

Yeah in the future, I will certainly be buying hardware that is designed to run desktop/server Linux (and support features you mention like BIOS upgrades easily as well) or is otherwise known to support it well. No more random COTS buys for me without research first. I'm done burning hours on this sort of weird crap vendors want to give us. So if a vendor wants to sell me a PC or enterprise anything, it needs to support Linux well.

I also don't plan to purchase any brand new Apple hardware. I will only adopt Apple hardware late (and used) and will only run OS X if absolutely necessary for some reason.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#32

Post by drvdevd »

coldtea wrote: post #30
drvdevd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I have experienced that choice on Apple hardware recently (2015 mbp retina), lately Linux seems to, let's say, 95% Just Work on non-apple x86 hardware for me, WLAN, sound, and suspend/resume. [edit] and this is with any distro, perhaps with more or less setup work

> 95% Just Work on non-apple x86 hardware for me That has been the case for a decade or so now. 95% is not enough (for non-tinkerers)

Agreed. It's still frustrating -- see my other comment in thread. Even for non-Apple x86 stuff, I'm researching well going forward.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#33

Post by coldtea »

rev12 wrote: post #7
ubernostrum wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this is largely based on mythology. People seem to equate "pro user" with "software developer" (and no other roles/occupations at all), and invent a fictitious history in which the Macbook Pro was jumping up and down on stage shouting "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!" Except that never happened. The perceived dev-friendliness of the Macbook Pro was a historical accident: it turns out that when you build so…

>>> "Meanwhile, the audio/video-engineer types still seem to like the MBP" I can't speak to the professional video world, but that's absolutely false in the professional audio world. My experience is in the world of composition and sound design; the attitude towards using Mac for that shifted a while back, due to the lackluster and non-existent upgrades to the Mac Pro. No one in the professional audio world that I kn…

>I can't speak to the professional video world, but that's absolutely false in the professional audio world.

Depends on what you mean "professional audio world". If you mean heavy old style studios, the kind Led Zeppelin might have recorded on back in the day, yes, but these are on the go (profits and usage wise) anyway, as the industry shifts.

Musicians, producers, DJs, etc most carry laptops and have home studios based around them, and most use MacBook Pro's for their stuff (as evident in all kinds of interviews and live scenarios).

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#34

Post by coldtea »

kagamine wrote: post #26
WWLink wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're sharing annecdata: Almost every programmer I know owns a Mac and loves it, and prefers working on them. Except me. My employer doesn't let me use my own computer and refuses to buy me one.

> My employer doesn't let me use my own computer and refuses to buy me one. ? Then what are you using?

Refuses to buy them a Mac obviously. As in "doesn't let me use my own mac and refuses to buy me a mac of his own".

So, parent is using the computer the employer doesn't refuse to buy them, a PC.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#35

Post by coldtea »

kriro wrote: post #20
DasIch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the alternative anyway? Imagine a DJ playing a set and suddenly having Windows force an update on them. Linux during some periods barely played audio for regular use cases. If you want good hardware and a reliable operating system, you go with a Mac. A few annoyances with adapters it might require won't change that at all.

Anecdotally the surprising answer might be rather old BeOS based systems. At least that's what I saw once and apparently some people still use some old tools that are BeOS only for audio (from talking to the DJ) :D

I'm sure you'll find 2 or even 20. I doubt you'll find 100 of those people.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#36

Post by coldtea »

wyclif wrote: post #25
ubernostrum wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this is largely based on mythology. People seem to equate "pro user" with "software developer" (and no other roles/occupations at all), and invent a fictitious history in which the Macbook Pro was jumping up and down on stage shouting "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!" Except that never happened. The perceived dev-friendliness of the Macbook Pro was a historical accident: it turns out that when you build so…

That was then. But now that Apple does know that the MBP is perceived as dev-friendly, based on the type of people in that market segment that buy them, why would they let that slice of the market go?

Who said that slice of the market will go? Complainers are always amplified on the internet. Check back in 2 years.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#37

Post by dispose13432 »

Someone wrote: post #29
dispose13432 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As I understand it, Nvidia and AMD can't open-source their graphics drivers are parts of them are under third-party NDA. OK, so the question is upstream. Why would Qualcomm, ARM, or any upstream care about people finding out the interface to their hardware? What secrets are there in the drivers?

One argument I've heard is that they fear patent lawsuits because it might give hints as to how their hardware works.

How would it?

As I understand things (which I'm clearly not an expert at all), CPU opcode is like an ABI,

put this value into register A, this value into register B, and a magic opcode into register C,

and poof, the register D contains the value of A+B.

A driver will say that you put int X into memory point A, Y into memory point A+1, and call function C with argument of A and D will contain the multiplied number.

So how does #2 protect IP over #1?

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#38

Post by WildUtah »

vacri wrote: post #24
dispose13432 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wouldn't necessarily blame the "WLAN, sound, or sleep" thing on linux. I'd blame that on cheap parts manufacturers that refuse to distribute open source drivers for fear of releasing company secrets and lack of profit margins to operate on. I don't understand why would anyone not open-source their drivers? What's NVIDIA's secret sauce? Being able to build great silicon. What's Intel's secret sauce? Being able to b…

As I understand it, Nvidia and AMD can't open-source their graphics drivers are parts of them are under third-party NDA.

Mostly because open source would make them easier targets for patent trolling.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#39

Post by drvdevd »

drvdevd wrote: post #32
coldtea wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 95% Just Work on non-apple x86 hardware for me That has been the case for a decade or so now. 95% is not enough (for non-tinkerers)

Agreed. It's still frustrating -- see my other comment in thread. Even for non-Apple x86 stuff, I'm researching well going forward.

This is a really great article I should add and I do wish them luck in their endeavors to support Apple hardware. The developers tone is quite inspirational.

Re: Linux on the Mac – state of the union

#40

Post by wyclif »

coldtea wrote: post #36
wyclif wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was then. But now that Apple does know that the MBP is perceived as dev-friendly, based on the type of people in that market segment that buy them, why would they let that slice of the market go?

Who said that slice of the market will go? Complainers are always amplified on the internet. Check back in 2 years.

The perception, as displayed in this thread, is that they are. Plus the overwhelming negativity from developers regarding the new MBP, as seen in numerous HN threads and other tech news stories.

I don't really have any stock in whether the perception is a reality or not, so I'm willing to be persuaded. Hopefully in the next iteration the MBP will have at least 32GB RAM, and they will make a move that will please the software developer market.

Post reply on HN